What Game Studios Can Learn from the AI Microdrama Boom

In this episode, host Kalie Moore sits down with Angela Yu, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of StoReel, to explore one of the fastest-growing entertainment categories that gaming executives should be paying attention to: AI-native microdramas. While many still think of microdramas as shortened TV shows, Angela argues they have far more in common with mobile games, relying on retention loops, emotional hooks, creator ecosystems, user acquisition economics, and increasingly interactive experiences. She shares how StoReel is building both a consumer platform for AI-generated serialized stories and a creation suite that enables creators to produce content dramatically faster and cheaper than traditional production methods. Along the way, they unpack the KPI performance of AI-produced titles and what game studios can learn from the category’s rapid growth.

The conversation also explores one of the most fascinating cultural divides in technology today: why attitudes toward AI look dramatically different in China versus the West. Having spent half her life in both markets, Angela offers a unique perspective on why creators, companies, and consumers in China have embraced AI far more aggressively, and what that means for the future of entertainment. They discuss creator ownership, AI-powered storytelling, underserved content genres, interactive characters, and why the next generation of entertainment may look less like Hollywood and more like a creator-driven marketplace where anyone can build, monetize, and distribute serialized stories. The episode ultimately examines how AI is reshaping not just production workflows, but the entire relationship between creators, audiences, and entertainment itself.

We’d also like to thank Heroic Labs for making this episode possible! Thousands of studios have trusted Heroic Labs to help them focus on their games and not worry about gametech or scaling for success. To learn more and reach out, visit https://heroiclabs.com/?utm_source=Naavik&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Podcast 

This transcript is machine-generated, and we apologize for any errors.

Kalie: Welcome to the Naavik Gaming Podcast. I'm your host, Kalie Moore. Games don't just compete with other games anymore. They compete for attention against every form of entertainment.

And right now, the breakout format isn't a game at all, it's the micro drama. The most interesting micro drama apps have far more in common with mobile gaming than they do with Hollywood. Some of the top apps were built by game studios. They monetize through gamified economies of coins and unlocks, and they live and die on UGC the way the best gaming platforms do.

The convergence is also why a gaming-focused investor, Play Ventures, backed today's guest. Most micro drama apps still shoot live action and then bolt on AI afterwards. But our guest today, Angela Yu, the co-founder and co-CEO of StoReel, is doing something very different. They're building short-form serialized drama that's AI native from the very first frame.

Sto Real runs two products. The StoReel app is a direct-to-consumer platform of premium one to two minutes episodes across romance, thriller, and fantasy. And StoReel Canvas is a creation suite that lets non-technical creators storyboard and produce AI shows roughly three times faster and about fifteen percent of the cost of live action.

The thesis is what they call P U G C, which is professional user-generated content, where creators, not studios, become the showrunners of these mobile-first series. And the early numbers are really promising. AI-produced titles are delivering twenty-two percent higher seven-day retention than comparable live action series.

Cost per new paying user is around thirty percent below industry averages. And the company says that it's run a profitable UA campaign for more than six straight months. And this is in a market where, by some estimates, ninety percent of apps are losing money. Before founding StoReel, Angela was the product and production lead at Momo, which is part of the Hello Group, the Match Group of China, where she built an AI companionship app used by millions and line-produced large scale film projects with multimillion-dollar budgets.

So, she's lived on both the platform and the production side of this business. Today, we're gonna talk about what it actually takes to build an AI-native microdrama platform, why StoReel is betting on creators instead of studios, and most importantly, what game studios can learn from microdramas and what microdramas are quietly borrowing back from games.

Angela, welcome to the podcast.

Angela: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Kalie: All right. Let's dive in. So, I wanna start with your background. You've sat on both sides of this business, as I just mentioned, the platform side, building a video app for millions at Momo, and the production side. What did that teach you about why traditional film budgets don't add up when you're making serialized content for mobile?

Angela: What I've observed in the traditional film and TV industry is that a traditional film, it requires a very big budget, it requires a lot of people, and it requires a lot of time. But for us, mobile first entertainment, it's very quick and you're able to iterate it very quickly and test and then gather a lot of data.

So, I would, I wouldn't say that microdramas are a shorter version of TV. Instead, it's something completely different. It's something actually much closer to casual gaming or leisure games in that you need to have very heavy retention hooks, you need to have emotional storytelling, you need to have very strong systems in place in order to have these users stick onto your platform.

So, I think microdramas are a completely different game, and that's what's so exciting about the entire industry and now that it's really taking over different countries as well.

Kalie: And you're AI native, not live action with AI kind of bolted on post-production. When did you become convinced that you had to build everything around AI from day one rather than just layer it onto a traditional shoot?

Angela: Yeah, and that's really because we don't think that AI is just a cost saver. It's not just for efficiency. Instead, AI is going to completely disrupt and reshape the entire production ecosystem. So, what I mean by that is before, again, you needed an entire team of people, 200 to 300 people, to create one film, but now someone can just sit at home, one person can create an entire film.

So now, we've really completely changed the ecosystem that used to be in place. And at the same time, before you had to film the entire film, and now it's gone live, and you can't really do any edits now that it's already been live. But for us, we can test three to five episodes of the, of the show.

We can take it down, we can re-edit it again, and then we can gather more and more data. So, in this, in these two aspects, it's really become something completely different, so you need to really make the product AI native in order to sustain and grow more fans and more great content.

Kalie: And we're gonna talk a lot more about both the AI component and what these creators that you work with look like.

But before we move on, micro dramas, as we mentioned, they're booming. You're in a pretty crowded market. Okay, I wanna talk a little bit about your thesis before we move on. What's the core idea behind StoReel that you think the rest of the micro drama industry isn't even looking at yet?

Angela: So, our core thesis is that content is now going to be very active as opposed to very passive in the past.

So, what I mean by that, again, is when you used to watch a movie or you're watching something on TV, you can't really change anything that you're being shown to. But now what we believe is that content is going to allow us to really participate inside of the story. So, from a creator perspective, that means that you can shape the story.

You can tell anything that you want to tell. So, we're no longer constrained by Hollywood budgets. You no longer need to get the, get the approval from executives. You can create any genre that you want to create. And from a user perspective, now you can interact with the characters in the stories. You can now shape and co-create with the characters in the stories.

You can even dictate what the endings of the shows are. So, for us, we really believe that the entire content ecosystem is now going to be very active, in that everybody can have a say as to what they want to watch.

Kalie: And that's a perfect transition, 'cause I wanted to dive in the, into the, the concept of this interactivity and how people are participating.

So, we've covered some micro dramas on Naavik before, and the through line was that these apps look more like mobile games, choose your own adventure, than TV. Are your most valuable users behaving more like binge-watchers or more like players?

Angela: So, when we first attract them into our app, they come in as binge-watchers, but our strongest users are those that become players.

So, they first watch a show, they fall in love, and now they realize they can actually develop a relationship with the character, and the character is now operating on a LLM that will give you very personalized, answers and thoughts that they have. So, our, I would say, our strongest users are those, that become players, and that's really what we see the future becoming.

Really having ... Attracting with our emotional content and having them stay with our interactive games.

Kalie: Can you share ballpark what percentage of users are participating as players?

Angela: About 30% of our users are now actively participating with our characters, , and we expect that to grow as we continue to develop our features.

Kalie: And then where do you see the strongest parallels between micro dramas and mobile games, especially when we look at this kind of player participation?

Angela: So, I think there is actually a lot that's in common, because you need to design a lot of emotional hooks. You need to have retention loops, again to have very strong social me- mechanisms, set into place.

So, I think it's very similar, and the ideology behind user acquisition and coming in and keeping them with great content, I think that applies to both micro dramas and the gaming industry.

Kalie: Yeah, I completely agree. I think when we look at monetization, the content treadmill, retention loops, there's so much overlap.

If we were to flip that, though, what do you think the micro drama industry is still learning from games or needs to learn from games?

Angela: To learn from how they really keep their users onto the platform day after day, and to really make sure that the user sticks with the entire gaming community. I think that's something that micro dramas really have to learn from gaming in terms of retention.

Kalie: Got it. So, let's talk about your AI native production model. You guys just launched a new tool called Canvas. Can you walk us through what that tool is and what it means for creators?

Angela: Yeah. So, our vision for Canvas is that anybody with a story to tell can now come to Canvas and create an AI story from zero to one.

What it is that you just go from script to story all on Canvas. So, the first step would be that you take your script, you upload it into Canvas, and now Canvas will break down all of your storyboard assets, your characters, your scenery, your props. We will generate all of these automatically for you as l- as well as the prompts that come with all of these assets.

And then the creator now has the ability to edit any portion that they want to. So, they really are the ones that devi- define the tone of the show. They define, h- the pace of the show and at the same time, the really creative direction of the show. So, we're really just helping them, with the automation and with the tech in terms of our Canvas workflow.

Kalie: And you've worked with thousands of AI creators. What did their pain points teach you that most-- that really shaped what Canvas has become?

Angela: Yeah. So, we really got the idea of Canvas after working with 2- to 300,000,, creators in the market, and what we noticed is that a lot of the AI tools are very fragmented, so they might be jumping from one to another, and there's no product that's actually specifically desi-defined for serialized storytelling.

So, for instance, if you take a product like Higgsfield, it can be used for stories, it can use be- for commercials, it can be used for anything. But for us, we specifically define the pro-product as used by those who create serialized stories. So, for us, that's how we got the idea of the product. And then the issues that they face at the same time is the cost of tokens.

So, for instance, if they are on an LLM, they can go one, two, three over and over again, generating different aspects of the scene that they want. But on Canvas, we eliminate that for them with our storyboard features. So, before you actually generate anything, we've already shown you a 16 view, 60, 16-shot view of what the story would look like, and you can edit that before actually generating the videos.

So, this would actually save a lot of cost and time for you. And at the same time, we have a one-click creation mode, which literally means that you just need to upload the script. With one click, we'll break down all of the assets. And once you confirm the assets, then we will generate the actual videos for you.

So again, saving you a lot of time and a lot of cost in the creation, creation flow.

Kalie: And I know from our background call that you, you can prompt creators of, "Do you want to create, a content or an episode for this specific micro drama?" And so, if people don't have their own ideas, they can come in and kind of build off of i-ideas or stories that you've al-already provided guardrails for.

But can people create their entirely new episodes as well? And I know you only recently launched, but I'd love to hear a little bit about the split of are you seeing more users wanting to create something entirely of their own, or are you seeing more users really excited about building on already beloved IP?

Angela: Yeah, definitely we see more users coming in and building their own stories. And I think that's very fascinating because literally anybody can become a director now. So, we definitely encourage all of our creators to create their own story. We're really only offering the tools to help speed up the process, at the same time, saving a lot of cost for the creator.

So, it's not that we constrain any of our creators to use any of the templates that we have or any of the stories that we ever have already scripted. You can come in and do anything that you would want.

Kalie: And then why is the creator-produced model the right model here when almost every other successful micro drama app has so far been studio produced?

What's your thesis here?

Angela: Yeah. So, like the gaming industry, the micro drama industry is also a content treadmill, and you can really see that the users go through the content so fast, and they're waiting for more of the same genre. So UGC has just unlocked about everything, right? Cooking short videos, anything that you can think of, but it's never unlocked serialized storytelling because that was never available.

You can never... If I wanted to shoot a movie and then have it launch in the movie theater, I wouldn't be able to do that. I would at least need 2 to 300 people to help me, but now I can realize that with AI, and that's why it's so important that we are doing this.

Kalie: So, one of my... I, I do a lot of work in UGC and gaming, and the best part of my job is when I get to tell the creators' stories because there's so many people just with, like, incredible stories, usually either coming from outside the games industry or they just have found...

They have this beloved game, they know the ins and outs of it, and they created, you know, a mod that really changed everything for the community. I would really love to hear, like, who the creators on your platform are. Have they worked in media and entertainment? Are they coming from completely outside of it?

Can you paint a little bit of a picture of who the creators are that are actually building successful st- shows on StoReel?

Angela: So, I will say a lot of our creators did previously work in the Hollywood or media and entertainment industry, whether it's commercials or TV or variety shows. Um, but I do also see a big group of creators who usually...

who used to do things that were completely unrelated. So, for instance, we have a girl who she used to be a government worker. Well, she still is a government worker, and then she builds stories for us at nighttime when she gets home. And what's so interesting about the UGC model is that the stories that she would create are stories that you would probably never see anywhere else because you don't really know, like, what's going on, on inside of her brain.

She's unlocking a lot of LGBTQ stories, much like Heat or Rivalry. She's bringing a lot of underserved genres to the table, and I think that's really the key to UGC, that you're able to really hand the key back to the audience, and they're so... able to bring such a, a, an array, a d- diverse array of content to the table.

Kalie: Yeah. That's real- Like, they write about what they know, right? And that's usually very different than what is getting published in Hollywood. I wanna talk a little bit about, like, the business model when it comes to IP. So, as we talked about, you let creators build long-term IP around their own characters and stories rather than StoReel actually owning that.

What does that ownership model look like, and, like, what does that cost you as a company?

Angela: So, we first take a story. The scripts are usually owned by us because the creators, they're usually more directors or people who generate the actual videos. So, they take the script from us, and then they're able to design what the characters look like, what the show is about, and then they realize the actual story.

But then the very interesting part is that we now give the creator the ability to make gamified, interactions with the character for the user. So, for instance, if you go on our app and you're chatting with one of the characters, the prompts are actually coming from the, the creators who created these, characters.

So essentially, all of the characters, they're basically virtual talent managed by the creators. So, it's a virtu- virtual talent agency that's been managed by the creator, and we're also going to develop this feature on Canvas where any creator can now actually design the game for the, for the character, for the user on the Canvas platform, and then they can launch it on the StoReel app.

So, I think that's something that you'll see on our platform very soon, and we're very excited about that.

Kalie: Whenever we deal with UGC, whether it's a platform like Roblox, we have to talk about moderation and quality control, and then I think there's an extra layer to this when we add in AI, right? You don't want just AI slop.

How do you approach moderation? Once someone creates a, a s- script or when someone creates an episode, what is the approval process? What does that look like? And then also what percentage of submitted content actually goes live on your platform?

Angela: Yeah. So that's exactly what the difference between UGC and PUGC are.

Because professional users, they will be the ones actually working with us on the content. So, it's not that, you know, we can just take a funny cat video and then launch it onto our platform. We actually still have a very standardized and very precise QA system, where if you want to submit something to us, we need to see that it's a serialized story and that it's not offensive or anything that would, you know, disharm- that would harm the community on StoReel.

So, we really take this very seriously, and we work with all of the creators on a one-to-one basis since we're still in a very early stage of our platform right now. But as we grow, then we will automate and standardize these moderations on our system with our tech so that nothing that, you know, is sloppy or AI slop would be launched onto our platform.

Because I think a lot of AI slop, it doesn't have a storyline, right? It's usually just a 30-second clip and things like that. There's no value to it. But for us, we still focus on very emotionally driven or very exciting stories that you would never be s- able to see anywhere else. I think it would be more like a webtoon in that sense, right?

Yeah. Where writers who write novels, it's not just, "Okay, I'm gonna write 30 set sentences and publish it." So, for us, I think it would be more like that.

Kalie: It's a really good comparison. Let's talk a little bit about the business model and the monetization. So, can you just high level the economics? Like, walk us through how StoReel actually makes money and how the split with creators works.

Angela: Yeah. So right now we mainly have our subscriptions. You can also pay per episode on our platform. So that's how we monetize our app. At the same time, as we introduce more gamified experiences, we're also going to experiment with more IA and maybe less, monetization around the content, instead focusing on the gamified experiences.

As for all of the creators, right now we pay on a per minute minimum guarantee basis. So that means every minute of content that you're, working on for Storyal, we will pay you a minimum. At the same time, if we come to a, an agreement, then we will also do a revenue share deal. The revenue share is on a one-to-one basis, but it can look anywhere like four to six or five to five, this type of split between us and the creator.

Kalie: It's really interesting. So, I wanna talk about a very specific micro-drama that did extremely well. Your original AI title, Oh My God, My Snow White Is a Man, validated a lot of this early. The CPI was a little bit over $4. This is compared to the 8 to $10 that we see in live action. Was this a repeatable kind of system or is this a hit-driven outlier?

And also, what did this title get right?

Angela: So yeah, this is the first full title that we released last month, and it was really a big hit for our platform. And you can see by the title how bizarre some of the titles we're working on are. So, the show is about a teenage boy who, he goes into a fairytale book, and he finds out that he's actually Snow White.

So, it's very crazy, but it's also a rom-com and it's very sweet. It's also a LGBTQ story, and it performed very well on our platform, especially with younger demographics. So, a lot of the cheesy romance, telenovela-like content that we did in live action in the past performed well with audiences in between ages between 30 to 50.

And now you're seeing that the Snow White title, it mainly attracted viewers from 18 to 30. So, you're seeing the, the demographic is getting much younger and we see that as long as the content is right and the story is appealing, people don't really care that it's AI or not. And at the same time, I think the quality of AI is only just going to get better and better.

So, I think whether that matters is just going to get lower and lower

Kalie: We've talked about age demographics, but one of the things that I've, as I mentioned, I've interviewed a, a couple of other game studios in more of the narrative space, so not necessarily micro dramas. And what's been really interesting is so, such a high percentage of their users and viewers are women.

Are you seeing that too?

Angela: Yes. So, a majority of our users are women, but now we're also looking to make a lot of shows for men as well, because if you see in China, everybody is watching a micro drama. So elderly people, men, women, teenagers, everybody is watching, and that's because there's enough content in China to actually offer this.

So, for instance, what men want to watch are very different than what women want to watch, right? So now we're also doing zombie apocalypse shows or shows about, you know, a guy, his wife cheats on him, and now he wins the lottery, and now he's a billionaire. Like, these type of plot lines actually work very well with a lot of men.

So, we're looking to make more stories that serve a wider range of demographics.

Kalie: That's so interesting that that works with men. That was ... And The New Yorker did a really interesting piece on micro dramas, and they talked about, like, kind of the reverse of that, of all the kind of revenge breakup stories that women love.

That's really interesting that it works for both genders., So obviously, like, China has this locked in. It's ... We've been able to reach, - A much bigger audience, right? Has anyone tapped into that in the US, or does it still feel like early days in regards to the gender demographic split?

Angela: I think in the US, because the content costs are so high, it costs about 200K to produce a show live action in the US.

People are not really looking to experiment. We want to do things that are very safe, that we know we can get a high ROI on. But now with AI, that problem is completely gone, right? Because we could just make 78 episodes or 10 episodes, and we can test whether it works well. And we are seeing that it is working well because now we're moving the age demographic younger.

So, I think the same ideology would work, as long as we're making the right content for the right group of people. Because in China, actually, it wasn't women that first started watching micro dramas, it was men. Men were paying very, very high amounts of money to watch micro dramas in China because there's really not anything on TV and in the movie theater that is directly serving their needs.

So that's why, the micro drama industry really took off in China.

Kalie: I had no idea. That's really interesting. I have one last business model related question before we dive into, to AI specifically. So, we obviously mentioned subscriptions, but I also would love to get your take on how you look at, like, pay per unlock or rewarded ads.

Like, w- of all the different business model options, what, what do you think is gonna hold up for more of a Western AI native platform? And also, I'd love to hear your take on how this is different in, in the West versus China.

Angela: Yeah. So, I think China is just about three to five years ahead of the US right now.

It was the same way for TikTok. And I think now we're seeing that in China, the short dramas are now completely free. They just do IAA, so ads. So, I think in the US it's going to follow very similarly. I don't think that this type of content, it's competing with Netflix or HBO. It's competing with TikTok and Instagram Reels.

So, I think this type of content naturally will work better with IAA. But for us, we're really betting that our AI gamified features will be the one to really carry out our monetization in the future.

Kalie: M- so moving on, I wanna talk a little bit more in depth about,, content differentiation and the AI perception of the community.

So, you've already mentioned you lean into LGBTQ stories with diverse leads, fantastical settings, many of which are easier to realize with AI than with a live shoot. I'd love to hear a little bit more of, like, why the platform is focused on these stories, and what your data has told you about why these are so popular as well.

Angela: Yeah. I think the perfect example is, is just if we look at Call Me By Your Name or Heated Rivalry, right? To cast two really hot guys and make sure that they're perfect actors, and they can also deliver a super great story for the audience, that's just very hard on its own. But with AI, we really don't have similar constraints because now we can test very quickly.

We can gather a lot of data, right? We can do the, these types of underserved genres and to really make sure what we're offering is very unique, and I think that's very important because a huge issue you see in the micro drama industry is that what you can see on one platform is very similar to what you could see on another platform, and that's why retention in this is- industry is a huge issue.

So, for us, we need to focus on a niche and to make sure we're serving our community and make sure that they're very sticky fans. And I think if we look at platforms like Bilibili or Twitch, these are how... These platforms are a perfect example of why you need to serve the niche first and the underserved, and then you can grow from there

Kalie: Has there been any data about, you know, what's going to work or what's popular that's really surprised you?

Angela: Hmm. What really surprised me? I think what was surprising is just the, that the age demographic got much younger, and the younger age demographic now has a much, much higher interaction rate with our AI chatbots. So previously, we had monetization features, but no one really paid to interact with our chatbots.

Once we started launching our AI shows with our AI characters, we saw that, you know, this portion is now having revenue, and people are paying to chat with our chatbots. So, we see that the younger audience really has much more of a need to interact with AI characters.

Kalie: Are there any extremely popular AI characters that you could just tell me a little bit about?

Who- Yeah, so- Who do people like to

Angela: chat with? So, people wanna chat with the two male leads from, Oh My God, My Snow White Is a Man, because that title performed really well. So, within the first episode, you'll see, as you're watching, a button pop, pop up and say, "Do you wanna chat with me?" And a lot of our users will now click in and actually experience chatting with the characters.

So whichever show is performing the best on our platform usually has a higher interaction rate with the AI chatbot as well.

Kalie: I feel like LGBTQ stories used to be niche, but f- now I feel like... I mean, I don't know if it came out with Heated Rivalry, but, like, every single woman I know has seen that show, has talked about that show.

I feel like it's gone so mainstream, but also, I don't know if this is what I'm getting fed in my algorithm, because I think, like, women between 30 and 50, that was their most, I don't know, the target demographic? I don't know, but that's the people I know who really loved it. Are you seeing this too? Is there any difference of, of interest in this content in China versus the West, or are we seeing something really global?

Angela: No, this is very global. So again, like, this type of content also, it's been limited by, um, China, but it's super, super popular here. There used to be a couple of shows that were, you know, we would call them S class, top hits, which means that, you know, these are the shows that are going to really make a historical movement in China because of how popular they are.

So, anybody on the streets would know what the show is. But now we- we're getting less and less of this type of content, but I think this is just so attractive for all women globally, so I don't think it's a fad, and I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon. I think you're going to see much more of this content come up because now you see there's a lot of demand.

I think it's just something that people never used to talk about, but now that it's talked about, everybody, you know, everybody loves it.

Kalie: Yeah. I think you sit at a really interesting intersection because you obviously spend a lot of time Like, you know, personally, location-wise, work-wise, in both China and the US, and in gaming, they always feel like such separate markets, right?

Like, most of the people I know who, they'll go global, but, like, they won't even touch the China games market. It's its own beast. But it feels like with TikTok and now micro dramas, there is kind of this expansion globally. But I'd love to hear, and I know this is a broad question, of are there any trends in micro dramas or in gaming that have really taken off in China but you know aren't gonna work for the West?

And then also second to that is, are there anything you've seen, since China is three to five years ahead, that you think, like, wow, i- in, in the States, in a year, this is gonna be the most popular thing. I'd just love to h- hear your overall insights on trends in both locations.

Angela: Yeah, I think 'cause I grew up in the States and I have stayed there for half of my life, but I've also spent half of my life in China, so what I've observed is that actually everybody, like, deep down inside craves for the same things.

So, for instance, you want to watch something sexy, or you wanna watch something very revenge driven or something very cheesy. Like, everybody actually wants to watch something that's super similar, and I think micro dramas in that sense are super similar to soap, TV soap dramas and at the same time telenovelas.

So, for us, what we do is we will take a very hit show in China, but we will adapt the settings and the characters. So, for instance, in China, if it's a timepiece, so timepieces are very popular in China, we would do something that's very similar to Bridgerton or something that's very also historical, but you can't just take what's, what was produced in China and then take it to the US because people wouldn't understand the culture and the history, um, aspects.

So, we always keep the underlying emotions very similar. We just change the characters, the settings, some of the dialogue. So, I would say that as we see in China, the plot lines are getting more and more detailed, and they're getting more and more advanced, so it's no longer you can just sit there and watch it in the s- in the background, but now you need to actually watch and you will see what's, to, to understand what's happening in the show, so for instance, thrillers or suspense.

And I think in the US that will happen as well, where the cheesy and low production dra- short drama quality will get more and more will be better and better.

Kalie: That's so interesting 'cause like one of the things we talk about in gaming all the time is, games are competing with, like, everything for attention now, right?

But usually when someone's gaming, they have some other form of entertainment on too. Maybe they're streaming, something on Spotify while they game, or maybe they're chatting on Discord. And I think the games or the entertainment companies who can figure that out, of how do you create content that's so sticky that people are just engaged with that one, that one form of entertainment rather than having t- attention elsewhere, I think that's gonna be who really wins.

H- how do you ... Why do you think that ... I'd love to hear your thoughts on how that changed. Is it just ... Is it a chicken and egg thing, where it's like people were so into micro dramas that they started to pay more attention, and so writers, producers could develop more Deeper plot lines, or is it the other way around?

I'd love to hear your take.

Angela: So, I think people just realize a lot of money is being made in this industry, and a lot of demand is here. And I think overall, the film and TV industry is kind of decaying in China as well. Even more so in China, I would say. And you see, if I'm just, like, on the bus or on the subway and eating out, I'll just see girls with their phones propped up, and they're watching micro dramas.

Like, that's become the new norm. They're no longer watching TV or movies. They're watching micro dramas because their phone is always vertically propped up in front of them. And I think that when more and more content comes in, then you will see better and better quality things happen, especially with the live action production value.

So, if I open up the Chinese micro drama app, I would say the production value is almost similar to what you would see on an HBO or a Disney Plus. So, it's, it's because so many people are watching, so much tal- talent and money is being poured into the industry, that everything is becoming better and better.

So, I think that's probably going to follow suit in the US, and that's why we are focused on exclusively very high quality content. We don't want to make AI slop or things that just look very bad. So because we, we really think that these two countries will have very similar viewing patterns.

Kalie: It's really interesting.

I- one of the many reasons I wanted to have you on the show is, as I mentioned, we've had other, other guests talk about, you know, building serialized content in the broader micro-genre space, but their communities are so against AI, like aggressively against it, that a lot of the game studios that I've talked to in the past or that I've, I've worked with, they feel that they have to hide how they use AI, even though they aren't necessarily using AI for To, they're using AI, I think, in ways to kind of amplify the experience, right?

It's not, it's not cases where someone has seven fingers and the production value isn't there. But with micro dramas, people or communities don't seem to have as negative a perception of AI. I'm really curious to hear, like, why, what's with that divergence? Is it a gamer thing? Is it more of an East versus West thing, or is there something about the format and what audiences expect from it?

Angela: Yeah, I think first in the US overall, the sentiment is quite negative. But I think in China everybody is super embracive. I think a lot of people who recently graduated and was really struggling to find a dro- job in the media and entertainment industry, now they can just learn AI on their own and they can make money from developing content.

I think it's a great, great opportunity for everyone, and everybody is super eager to learn it in China. And I think even companies are basically saying, "If you don't know how to use AI, then we can't have you in this company." So, a lot of that is happening in China. I think for gaming and versus micro dramas, the difference is, the reason why we focus on the niche again is because when the story is so, so appealing and you can't watch it anywhere else, then they won't care that it's AI.

And I think from a creator perspective, you know, post-editing, like, used to be very, very high barrier. Y- if you wanted to learn how to edit a film, you had to learn many, many skills and it was very super complex. But when TikTok launched CapCut, anybody can edit now, right? So, I can edit a clip on my phone, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be a Hollywood director one day.

It still depends on the human who is controlling the tool, so I think more so people just view it as a tool for creation. It's not going to actually take over human beings. Like, the content you create with AI will only be as good as the person that's able to create with AI. So that's how we look at it, I think from an industry perspective and from a country perspective.

Kalie: So, this is broader obviously than micro dramas or entertainment, but I would also just love to hear your take since you've split your life in two different places. Why do you think China is quicker to adopt that AI is here, this is part of our lives, this is part of our work life, than the US is?

Angela: I think that is deeply rooted in the culture.

So, if you order a coffee from California and you order a coffee from New York, you'll see people act super differently, right? Like, the amount of time you can wait for the coffee to come and how polite you are, it's really deeply rooted in how, how- what the culture is like. And I think in China, it's like a big New York.

Everybody is always on the go. Everybody is looking for new ways to make money or look for new opportunities and ways to actually bring about change, and I think everything is super flexible here. So, we wouldn't use a calendar to s- schedule social events, but in the US, we would book it on our calendar if we're gonna have coffee next week.

Now we, in China, most people, they meet and they maybe text each other two to three hours advance of the meeting that they're going to have. So, I think just the sentiment in China is super open and super, flexible, so when something like this happens, they view it as an opportunity to bring more and more change.

And I think the sentiment will also follow in the US because I think a lot of CEOs and a lot, a lot of corporations and investors, they're seeing that AI isn't gonna go away. It's- Yeah ... yeah, it's going to stay. It's actually going to change every single aspect of our lives, and I think in China, people are very well aware of this.

That's why there is basically no negative perce- perception of AI at all here, and that's, that's also super surprising when I'm in the US.

Kalie: What about, and I promise this will be my last macro question, but I feel like a lot of the fear that I see with AI is we aren't gonna have jobs anymore, the whole permanent underclass, and especially for young people who are graduating in this environment where kind of these early entry-level jobs have just disappeared overnight.

You aren't seeing that in China at all, the fear around job replacement?

Angela: So, I'll just raise an example. So, for us, we have, I think 10 directors who work in-house at our team. So, in the past, if they had graduated from a top film school, then they would apply to go to a huge entertainment company, and if they wanted to work on a film, they would be one of the 2 to 300 people who would work in the cast and crew.

And then they would slowly work their way up till the day that they actually have the power to dictate what the film will come out to be like. But now they can join a company like us, and they can create an entire show from end to end, and they can launch the show, and they can see the data from the show, and they can see whether the show will perform well.

Like, whether they're able to create a Hollywood budget film, I think that shouldn't be constrained to the fact that we have enough production power to support them. I think in China, obviously it has replaced some workers in terms of efficiency, but I, I think that it's only replaced workers who have not fully embraced AI's powers.

So, if you're able to use AI to do more work with less time and you're able to rest more, then why wouldn't you, right? And if you refuse to em- embrace this new technology, then I think these will be the people who will be eliminated from the market.

Kalie: It sounds like it's also offering Like, it's another tool for entrepreneurship, too, right?

That you don't have to go to these big companies and work your way up the ladder. You can really do your own thing with a lot, which is with a lot more flexibility and ease than you could have in the past.

Angela: I think for me, I used to work at big companies, like one person within thousands. I could never see what was actually, what my work was actually contributing to.

I would only get a salary from my job, and I felt like it was all pointless. Like, it didn't affect me at all- Yeah ... what was happening with my work. So, I think this is a great opportunity. If I was graduating during this time, I think I would also find a lot more self-value and see what I'm actually creating for the world, right?

You don't have to be super high in the hierarchical tier to actually create something that people would want to watch. You can just create it on your computer, launch it on TikTok, and millions of people can watch it if they wanted to, and I think that's really amazing. I think that's- Yeah ... yeah, that's-

Kalie: Leveled the playing field in a lot of ways that just weren't possible, prior to AI.

Okay, I wanna chat a little bit of what is next. Because as we mentioned, you just launched StoReel Canvas, which is really exciting, and I know you're pushing for a lot more creators, particularly in the West. I wanna hear a little bit more on, like, what's on your roadmap for the next, I know 12 months is forever in this AI age, so even six months.

Like, what are you guys working on?

Angela: Yeah, so we're focused on three things. One is bettering the quality of our AI shows, and then really improving how many shows we can do per month. Our goal for December is to do 100 shows per month. And I think we are, you know, moving closer and closer to that goal.

And the second piece is our StoReel Canvas, to really develop the product so that it can fully service our creators, guaranteeing that we are saving a lot of money and a lot of cost, but at the same time allowing for creative freedom on the platform. And the third is de- developing our game- gamify features to allow the user to really interact with our platform in a very different way, and that will be launching very soon as well in the next quarter.

So, we're focused around these three things, and I think, yeah, that's what we're very focused on and very excited for.

Kalie: So, I think ... Well, I know that you're really leading the AI micro drama category. Where does the category go from here? Like, what does it look like at scale? Who's making the content? And what milestone tells you that AI native has won?

Angela: I think we're still at the very beginning, especially in the US. I think we're still in the very beginning, and I think as we move forward, our platform will actually just become a AI serialized marketplace a serialized story AI marketplace where anybody who wants to create a AI story can post it on our platform, and we will help you distribute and monetize the content.

So, I think as we move forward, you're going to see better and better quality content. You're going to see much more talent join the entire community, and then you're going to see that, wow, so this is what AI is capable of. I think it's not just AI slop. It's just not, it's not only funny cat videos on TikTok.

It can actually create very moving and very well-orchestrated films. And then you're going to see much more creativity being unlocked in that aspect.

Kalie: I would love to hear what your favorite microdrama to date has been.

Angela: I think the, my favorite microdrama to date was the one that I first produced in Los Angeles.

It was a live action show, but I learned so much from working on that cast. It's called Mafia Housewife, and it's a story that we wrote from zero to one and we filmed zero to one, and really how amazing the pacing of the show is and how quick and efficient the entire cast and crew is. I think it was 20 people.

We filmed it within seven days. We wrote the script in one month, so everything finished within two months, and we launched it on our, on our platform, and now it's the top performing show on our platform. So, it was ... I learned so much from it, and it's something that I'll never forget.

Kalie: All right, I'm gonna go find it after this podcast recording.

And then for our final question, when you imagine Stow Reel five or 10 years from now, what do you hope it's meant for the creators who've built their own shows on it?

Angela: I really hope that they can think that, you know, they can do whatever they want, and then be able to, show it to the entire world. I think that's a very fascinating and very amazing power to have.

And it's only become available now with AI. So, I think, I would hope that... You know, my sister, she is also going to a media and entertainment school. Her major is something related to that. So, I would hope that with all of the tools available now, that if she w- were to become a creator, that she would feel that she doesn't need to get a job.

She can just do something that she loves, and she can make money from it, and then she can do it from her own home. What an amazing experience that would be. If I had that opportunity, I think I would have really embraced it when I was younger as well.

Kalie: Absolutely. Okay, and then actual final last question.

You know, we've talked about the different types of content that's performing, and the different diverse voices that are heard. Are there any categories or subgenres that you're really interested in right now that maybe haven't been told or aren't popular yet that you can't f- c- that you can't wait to usher in?

Angela: I'm super interested in making cat dramas. So, I, I'm not sure if you, you've seen the fruit dramas on TikTok lately.

Kalie: Oh, yes.

Angela: With the Fruit Island. I think it would be... We've started experimenting with this already, so making an entire cast that's, like, very Pixar, tone, and very just about cats falling in love and how they would behave in a micro drama.

So, this is something that we're working on, and I think it would have a following as well.

Kalie: I'm sure it would. So, Angela, thank you so much for joining us. We can't wait to continue to follow along with your, on your journey, and also watch the cats falling in love. We're gonna link to StoReel in our show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Angela: Thank you so much. It was great speaking with you.

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