Hasbro is known for iconic properties like Dungeons and Dragons and Monopoly, but is sometimes overlooked as the licensor of incredible video game successes such as Baldur's Gate III and Monopoly Go!
In the last 12 months, Hasbro's licensed games have generated a staggering $3.25 billion, making it the largest entertainment IP licensor in video games, and almost doubling the revenue of the next largest licensor, Disney, which includes powerhouse franchises like Marvel and Star Wars.
David Taylor sat down with Eugene Evans, the Senior Vice President of Digital Strategy and Licensing at Hasbro. In this episode we dive into Hasbro's approach to licensing IP to video game developers and how they’ve successfully transitioned their business from the physical playground to the virtual realm.
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This transcript is machine-generated, and we apologize for any errors.
David: Welcome to the Naavik Gaming Podcast. I'm your host, David Taylor, and today we're discussing the number one toys and entertainment licensor in video games from the past year, Hasbro. Known for iconic properties like Dungeons and Dragons and Monopoly, Hasbro has seen incredible successes with breakout hits such as Baldur's Gate 3 and Monopoly Go.
In the last 12 months, Hasbro's licensed games have generated a staggering 3. 25 billion, almost doubling the revenue of the next largest licensor, Hasbro's licensed games Disney, which includes powerhouse franchises like Marvel and Star Wars. Joining me today is Eugene Evans, the senior vice president of digital strategy and licensing at Hasbro.
Eugene oversaw development of both Baldur's Gate 3 and Monopoly Go. I'm excited to delve into Hasbro's approach to licensing IP to video game developers and how they've successfully transitioned their business from physical playground to the virtual realm. Eugene, welcome to the podcast.
Eugene: Hey, David, thank you. I would love to be able to take responsibility for the development of those projects, but I was merely overseeing the relationship with two amazing partners who delivered on two great successes with monopoly go and BG three.
David: Thank you for fact checking me on that. Just trying to be the hype man, but I can understand how sometimes the hype can go too far.
Eugene: We want to make sure that our partners always get credit for the hard work that they do.
David: Absolutely. So yeah, so to begin, would love it if we could just start from the beginning. If you could introduce us to how you got to where you are today as SVP of digital strategy and licensing.
Eugene: Sure. It's great to be able to chat with you today.
I joined Hasbro joined wizards of the coast specifically about six years ago. I came on board because At the beginning, really, of a journey that Hasbro and Wizards has been on to do more and more in the digital space, the company has a very long history in licensing, significantly predates me, and a great deal of success over that time in the, in digital gaming and I joined to head up business development and built a Group to perform that function within the company about two years ago, expanded my role to go beyond wizards of the coast to include the Hasbro portfolio of IP.
So I delighted to be able to work with a team. That oversees our digital licensing and partnerships with some great companies that cover everything from D and magic to also include monopoly. Clue transformers, Furby, you name it. If. The company was, if it was a toy that you played in your childhood, there is a 50 percent chance that we were responsible for it.
I've been fortunate enough in my career to work with a number of big companies including electronic arts and Viacom and smaller startups, including mythic entertainment. But really it's been an honor and a pleasure to work with. Across Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast because of the, we have such a remarkable portfolio of IP that we really are just at the beginning of tapping into the digital opportunities for the whole portfolio.
David: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah the quality of the IP and the number of them is pretty staggering. I would love to better understand how, digital gaming and Wizards of the Coast sits within the broader Hasbro portfolio. Help us understand how how the org is structured and how that leads to opportunities across various verticals.
Eugene: Sure. You can think about Hasbro's three principal businesses, the toys and games, wizards and digital gaming. And then Hasbro Entertainment. Toys and Games is the owner of such iconic brands as Monopoly, Transformers, etc. Wizards is obviously best known for D& D and Magic the Gathering. And that's also where the management of our digital games development sits.
Hasbro Entertainment. Manages our relationships in the world of TV, film, animation, really creating entertainment opportunities. They the folks that work with partners to develop and create shows that are based upon our IP. For example the recently announced partnership with Bargo Robbie's production company for Monopoly.
Which is obviously very exciting. And there's many more announcements coming from that group. Licensing overall is an important part of our business. We have a group that focuses on everything other than digital licensing. And we are recognized as the number three entertainment company in licensing in the world.
Licensing. I believe the Licensing Association recently updated its top 1 50 and we were number three in as an entertainment company. And then obviously Aldora, as you referenced, another research group recently listed us as the number one digital licensing organization. So licensing out R. I. P. Has been a big part of the business for many years and is really acknowledgement, an acknowledgement of the value that our partners see in RIP and how it can help pull our communities together and amplify their great product.
David: Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And I guess my question for you now is like, is there a way in which. Those other business lines, is there a flow of business? In other words, you've got your toys lines, which have these iconic properties that people have grown up with and have known for many years is the flow from toys to toys and board games, tabletop games, to digital games and licensing that are typically higher margin.
Businesses. How does this all connect together?
Eugene: We look at the entire package. This is, I believe, our true tremendous advantage that we have. We're collaborating both externally with our partners to bring great product to the table to our fans that exemplifies that IP. But then we're also working internally across the company, whether it's directly with the toys and games group or whether it's with the entertainment group to really.
Amplify our partner's message. And I think we've been very effective at that. An interesting example of late has been monopoly. Monopoly go has obviously been a huge success for our partners scopely. They delivered a great game. That has really resonated with fans of Monopoly, but then has gone significantly beyond that and been very successful.
We just announced a, we just announced a Monopoly Go board game. We have a board game based on a video game, a mobile game, based on a board game. And, We, that we did that very quickly that we collaborated with the board game team within Hasbro. That, that game has come to market very quickly and we think is going to find a great audience and just continue to perpetuate that interest.
So that's a great example of the sort of collaboration that we can drive.
David: Got it. And did you in that scenario, did you have to license monopoly go back from scopely or did you, it was that not necessary?
Eugene: It wasn't necessary. I won't go into the details of our partnership with them, but we ultimately retained all rights to our IP.
David: Got it. Super interesting. Moving on to the topic of Monopoly Go, I think a lot of people are interested to sort of, uh, understand what it's like from the licensor's perspective to be part of such a success, but also the development was not always a clear cut. It was a long road.
I think Monopoly Scopely had owned the Monopoly or had the license for Monopoly since 2016, which means, that was a, seven year project, roughly speaking. I was wondering, could you break down the phases of the project in the journey there? You had a front row seat to it.
What did it look like from a licensor's perspective to go through the ups and downs of a project like that?
Eugene: In fairness, I only had that front row seat for a couple of years. Ultimately this is down to. I have the utmost respect for our partners, and this is something that both Scopely and Lariat have in common.
Despite the incredible differences between Monopoly, Go, and Baldur's Gate 3, what they have in common, It's two world class partners who understand their product category, whether it's mobile games or, PC and console role playing games, they understand what great looks like, not just what good looks like, but what great looks like, and they both have demonstrated the grit and tenacity to get it.
To work through all of the challenges of development to deliver a great game. And we put a tremendous amount of trust in our partners. Scopely built a product, soft tested it, determined that it wasn't working. It wasn't the best product that it could be. And they moved on and they tried again.
What we've demonstrated was patience with a partner who understood their market, tested the product and soar it through to become the great product that it is today.
David: Got it. And so just for context for the audience, I think it started off more similar to Clash Royale and then in its first iteration.
And then they pivoted to Coin Master. More as a, as their main point of influence with the current iteration that we see today.
Eugene: Yeah, I didn't actually see the previous iteration, so I won't comment on that. And I'm not sure what they've said publicly. What they recognize that I think this is what's really important about any license opportunity like this, you have to identify what's at the core of that I.
P. What is it about that game that people enjoy that is proven after, in this case, 75 plus years of success and don't lose sight of that. This goes beyond. Just the ad that runs that encourages somebody to click through and go, Oh, it's a monopoly game. Obviously, that's one place that a brand brings tremendous value, but what the real value comes from those from the early metrics and the long term value of what an IP brings to a game if it's done successfully.
When somebody opens that app on their phone and hits the big go button and the dice roll and the token moves around the board and they purchase that, that real estate, they immediately know what it is they're doing. They immediately know what the game is, but you're obviously with Monopoly Go, not literally playing Monopoly, but people are immediately familiar and get very comfortable with the game and given the mass market scale of reach to people who Arguably may not even think of themselves as gamers get, I think one of the biggest challenges with mobile gaming today is reaching an audience that's so big that they're not familiar with all the necessarily all the gaming tropes that as people within the industry, we often get Comfortable with them familiar with we have to put ourselves in a different mindset and I think that you know the early metrics around the retention in the first few days were very high.
The demonstrated that not only hits go play made a great game but people were immediately understanding and getting drawn into what makes it so compelling and so much fun to play.
David: Yeah, that's really interesting. I think. When people think about licensing, the first thing they think about is oh, this will lower my marketing costs because people are already familiar with the IP.
They'll give it a try. But in your case, what you're saying is it actually leads to higher retention because people are immediately understanding the game. They're not, walking away, scratching their heads and wondering What that was all about.
Eugene: It also represents tremendous network effect because when people tell their friends, Hey, I'm really enjoying this monopoly game.
You should check it out. They don't have to explain what the game is. They the friends will immediately know, Oh you've been enjoying this. It's Monopoly. Let me give it a try. As opposed to many games where you say, Oh, I've been really enjoying this game. Let me tell you how it works and you have to explain it.
Yeah. So I, obviously I would say this. I think we have one of the best portfolios of IP in gaming because they start with games. Yeah. You're the challenge with many IP that's based upon characters, narrative, world building is that the first thing you have to do is go, okay what's the game?
We start with games that have been, in many ways, in many cases have been attracting fans and players for decades.
David: Yeah, that makes total sense. And super interesting to think about it from that perspective. I, one of the things that I want to go back to is around that seven year trajectory.
And I understand you were only, so had that front row seat for the last few years. But, from a licensor perspective, when things don't work out, you're working with a partner. How do you think through whether to continue with the project or not?
Eugene: We have a long history with Scopely.
They've been, they were successful for us with the Yahtzee game and the Scrabble game. So this is not the first time that we partnered with them and. I think that gave us great confidence that they would see the project through and the trust that they would do the right thing for the IP and for the fan.
David: That makes sense. Can you describe the relationship a little bit more in terms of how. Hasbro shows up in terms of having influence over the direction of the game. Are you guys fully trusting the partner or are you involved in weekly conversations? How hands on are you with your development partners?
Eugene: We're certainly, we're not necessarily speaking with them weekly. I have a production team that runs the relationship. I think they're one of the best in the business and certainly one of the most experienced in the business, having been doing this for, In some cases, 15 plus years, and I think there's a very different type of relationship you have with a license or that you are trusting with your I.P. As opposed to perhaps a development studio that we might hire to build a product ourselves, where we're taking on the responsibility for determining what that game is, whether it's doing well and so on. Our first task is to build a product. Ensure that game remains true to the IP, does it not only aesthetically represent everything that people have come to understand about that game or that IP, but also that it's actually fun and remains true to what makes.
The game successful originally. So that's the first thing I would say is that, we, that's the nature of our working relationship. And then also equally being the conduit internally with our franchise partners and marketing teams to ensure that they're up to speed on the development of the game, how it's going and how it might fit into their future plans.
David: So I think the final thing I was curious about is. We're going to talk a little bit about acquisition that you made or that Hasbro made in the D and D franchise. I'm curious, you guys were probably seeing some of the metrics in early beta testing for Monopoly Go. Was there ever a question of whether Hasbro should acquire Scopely?
Eugene: That was not in discussion of late. We know what we're good at. We know what our partners are good at. That, that was not something that was contemplated.
David: Got it. I have a question for you on that later, but for now let's move on to dungeons and dragons and on the topic of acquisitions.
I think Hasbro acquired beyond D and D a couple of years ago. And I'm just curious, using this as an example, how does Hasbro approach acquisitions and what has been the impact on the growth for D and D in this case?
Eugene: Sure. So that was D and D beyond that we acquired. D and D beyond was originally a licensor and they had the right to create tools.
To enable people to play d and d remotely with friends or enhanced when they were around the table playing d and they had done a very good job of this and we saw that it would be a tremendous strategic fit with our own plans. Increasingly people play. Even if they're not playing, even if they're playing analog games, often they are supported by digital tools.
And there are many challenges with playing D& D. For example, getting a group of friends together in person on a regular basis. The rich catalog and library of content that players draw upon as they play D& D. It's ripe for a set of tools. That amplify that experience. We will never move away from the theater of the mind in person, just the light of being able to play with a DM and a group of friends in a room.
Digital tools represent a way for us to amplify that experience and take it beyond just what you might be able to do in person and by acquiring D and D beyond, we gave ourselves. An incredibly strong base of users that from which to start and build outward from that is represented not only in terms of the 2D maps features, for example, that we've added, or the content that's been added through D& D Beyond, but now the work that's being done to create a virtual tabletop experience, which we've been showing people over the last year Is I believe going into or is in friends and family at the moment and will broaden out to other users over the next 12 months.
David: Amazing. I'm excited for that. I think. I've never, I've been someone who wants to play D and D for probably a decade now, and I've never been able to line up a group of friends and a dungeon master to make it happen. So maybe this is my moment to to start.
Eugene: For us, digital tools that we're creating and we acquired with D& D Beyond represent ways to make the game only more accessible.
The game is the D& D is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, which is such a huge accomplishment and recognition of its role. It is the world's greatest role playing game, as we like to say, and But what, all we, what we need to do is make it even more accessible and remove anything that might hinder fans or aspiring fans to be able to play D& D.
David: That's amazing. So on the topic of D& D, let's maybe transfer over to Baldur's Gate 3, which was a huge success for Wizards of the Coast, Larian, the developer I'm in, I know I've already made a couple of assumptions on this podcast that have turned out to be incorrect, so I know I'm going to make one more I imagine Wizards of the Coast might take a more hands on approach than, Hasbro more broadly, given how deep of a history D& D has.
I'm curious, what was the involvement like from wizards of the coast in managing the Larian studios as a licensor?
Eugene: As I pointed out earlier, when we partner with a company like Larian, it's because they are the, there's a domain expert in the product category that they understand, whether it's scopely and mobile.
or Larian in RPGs. So there's a tremendous amount of trust that's given to those partners. We had a lot of involvement early on with the definition of the or providing feedback really on the story, the narrative, the characters, the settings, and so on. But ultimately we put that into the hands of Larian.
And they have one of the most talented set of writers and designers of RPGs in the world. And the results speak for themselves. Where they understood the assignment. How do you create a great D& D game? And they embraced all aspects of enchanting the D& D fans. While also creating a product that could draw people into the world of D and they did a tremendous job of that.
We're not in their face every week. We are we're here to answer questions when they are wondering about a specific aspect of the world. But they consistently delivered. So that just built trust even more so over time and we let them do their job. And in some cases that meant stretching the definition of what D and D is because D and D has been nothing but flexible over the last 50 years.
There have been multiple incarnations. It is a constantly changing slate of settings and worlds and characters that also just tries to keep up with the times as well.
David: So another question for you on just the process. Baldur's Gate 3 went early access, and I think that's a very interesting strategic decision that we're seeing more developers make.
I'm curious, from your perspective, what was it like? Can you give us insights into was it to engage the audience before the game was fully finished? Was there Nerves around shipping unfinished product was it challenging to manage the community and their expectations around the final game? Help us understand that whole.
Eugene: Well, Those are really all questions for Larian, because that was the challenge that they faced. They came to us early on with the plan to go into early access. I was very comfortable with that because I think the game, even at that early stage, showed tremendous promise, and they were very, look, one of Larian's strengths is its relationship with its community, and really understanding how to listen, how to act, when to act, what to take away from that feedback, and they they made a Decision to go out there very early with the game.
And I think that it was tremendously important for the development of that product, cause they got very hands on feedback from a very rich community of very passionate fans that influenced the outcome of the final game.
David: Yeah.
Eugene: And not not every developer could do that. Not every product is right for that early release.
But Larian exemplified what it means to build in public and build with the community and understand what the community wants and expects out of a really high quality, not just D& D game, but a high quality RPG.
David: I think the theme here is, finding really solid partners that you can, trust and know that we'll execute even through the tough times.
Eugene: That's right. Software development is where game development is one of the most. Challenging combinations of both creative design and technical accomplishment. And if that trust isn't there and you don't choose the partners who you feel great confidence in from the beginning, can deliver on that, the results can be very challenging.
David: What was it like for you to, be able to participate in that development process and see this game, one of the greatest games of all time? According to, many critics,
Eugene: I have the utmost respect for the team of Larian's grit and tenacity. You think about both of these games being built through COVID as well as facing other challenges.
And as I mentioned a moment ago, game development is really hot. So then Larian having A couple of hundred people across seven studios touching almost every time zone or at least major time zone around the world. I am, I remain in awe and have great respect for the team for pulling it off.
David: Yeah, it's pretty incredible.
During that dark period in our history, it was just news article after news article of games being delayed, years or, some 18 months, 24 months. The fact that they were able to pull this off really is quite the feat.
Eugene: It was not without its delays. It depends upon your point of view of when the game was supposed to ship.
The quality. Always shine through and in a era where games can remain relevant for many years. This is not a live game as a service game but we would hope that Monopoly Go, for example, and we have other games that have been live for many years now can continue for years. So it goes, this is it.
The quality of the product matters in the long term, people will be discovering BG3 and playing it with fresh eyes for many years to come, and it won't easily date itself. Think about Baldur's Gate 1 came out 25 years ago. There is still a lot of nostalgia and love for that game. And games can live on for a long time today.
So getting it right and getting it out the door correctly is more important than ever.
David: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I think I saw in April, it was revealed that Larian wouldn't be working on Baldur's Gate 4. I'm curious, what was your feeling of that decision? What's your perspective on it?
Eugene: We would have loved to have obviously continued to work with Larian, but we respect the decision. The crafts people they will follow their art. And they made a decision to pursue their own vision for the future of RPGs. And I won't I won't speak to what they're doing because I don't know what they're doing.
That's their business at this point. Hopefully I remain friends with some of the folks there that we will stay in touch. And I will be looking forward to as much as the next fan, what it is that they deliver in future years, because I'm sure it'll be exceptional. But we have the utmost respect for the decision they made to pursue their own dream and their own vision of what they wanted to create.
David: Amazing. I want to ask you, if you've found another developer to work on Baldur's Gate 4, but I know you won't give me an answer. So I think we'll probably,
Eugene: I don't like I like to think of it as the future of D& D or the future of Baldur's Gate. We are, we're always talking with lots of developers, but it really is what's the right future for D and other expressions.
We've announced other D and D games that are in development. They won't be Baldur's Gate. There will be other interesting, exciting, engaging expressions of D& D. The D& D universe is rich with options for lots of different ways to express what a great D& D game can be.
David: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. All right there, we've, we talked about Baldur's Gate, which is a computer game and then was made into a console game as well.
Are there other platforms, maybe even separate from video games that are still technically digital? I know you we talked about the the tabletop RPG, but are there other things that that might fall into the digital realm that we haven't covered today.
Eugene: We do have we have announced that we've partnered with a company to do a VR expression of D and D for example,
D and D VR remains in many ways very early.
And we've looking, we've been looking for a while for a partner that. Can explore what it means to bring D and D to VR. The challenge with VR and D is if you bring up D and D, if you bring up VR to a D and D fan, who is really interested in VR, their head explodes. And it explodes in one of two directions really, either their expectation is they'll be able to sit at a table and play D& D with their friends virtually with a virtual tabletop or they'll be able to be immersed in this world that they've imagined playing D& D, perhaps in first person and exploring this rich world.
Neither of which is completely viable today in current headsets or frankly, budgets given the limited, relatively limited installed base. We don't want to disappoint our fans. So we think we've come across a partner and a product that will, people will get excited about, but. It may be many years before we can truly satisfy in the world of VR or AR what a fan would truly expect and aspire to see on those platforms.
David: Yeah, that makes sense. One thing that I always say when people talk about AI or VR in video games that I always say you're competing against human imagination. And when you talk about AI narrative, it's people's imagination is far more compelling than a story that an AI could generate.
Eugene: There is nothing more vibrant than the imagination of a good DM who can react in the moment and really handhold and lead a group of players through an amazing in person adventure that's irreplaceable. We always put the creative and the crafts people and the designers. And the artist at the center of almost everything we do.
David: So maybe at this point we can zoom out a little bit. I want to talk a little bit about, the future of licensing as you see it. But before we get into sort of the future, could you just give us a, a little bit of a history lesson on how licensing strategies have changed over time as gaming itself has expanded and become more diverse?
Eugene: Obviously there's a very long history of licensing gaming going back to the start of gaming and the early consoles, whether it was the VCS or the later on the Nintendo entertainment system, licensing has always played a role in bringing an audience of fans to a game.
But the quality was never always consistent and there's a long history of failed licensing games. Yeah. The, those early gaming platforms didn't necessarily deliver on the promise of that IP. A Star Wars game on an Atari VCS was never going to match what fans had just in recent years at that point discovered on the big screen.
I think today the consoles and PCs and mobile can truly represent those licenses in amazing ways and capture the emotion that goes along with those IPs in ways that those early games couldn't. Could never consoles could never do, which makes licensing even more valuable today because of that resonance gamers have more choices than ever today, they can play games on just about anything with a screen in their house when the when they're on the road anywhere, anytime.
And with their choice of business models and how they pay for that entertainment. In addition, Indie gaming has exploded. Thanks to digital distribution, the availability of great free tools for development. Today, anybody with conviction and talent. Can make a game. And we see that with just some of the tremendous breakout successes of indie titles that appear to come from nowhere after many years of hard work, in most cases by very talented individuals or teams.
So in that environment where there is so much choice and especially with some of the challenges today around. User acquisition and the cost of marketing especially on mobile, the competition for share of time, as well as share of wallet is greater than ever. A well utilized license can help define and deliver a great game and bring an audience to a game.
I believe we have one of the best portfolios in gaming, as I mentioned earlier, because they start as games. And for all the reasons I've given, we. Go into a partner, which partnership with somebody really already knowing what the true north of that game needs to be. And we understand why that game will emotionally resonate with players because we understand it from our license product that they're riffing on to create a new great game.
From that, we can work with our partners to build something that's truly engaging, inciting, and hopefully innovative while staying true to the principles of the original game. We have over a hundred games that are actively in the market, and we have 40 games that are currently in development under license with partners.
We cover the gamut of platforms, genres, And almost every IP within our portfolio. And hopefully we have something for everyone from d and magic gathering to transformers, a monopoly to pepper pig, to clue across everything from mobile to PC to console into vr. So it's, I I think licensing IP will always play a role.
In digital gaming, no matter what the platform, as long as it's done well and with respect to the IP and to the fan.
David: Is there a platform that you are have a particular inclination towards or that you think is particularly ripe for licensing?
Eugene: I play on just about everything. I'm fortunate enough to be able to do that.
Not necessarily as deeply as I would like, but I try to play a lot of different things to understand what's working today and what's new and interesting. What was the second part of your question?
David: Do you think there's a platform that's particularly ripe for licensing?
Eugene: I think there is a lot more that could be done on mobile.
It's interesting to look at the top 100, arguably top 200, and how few of those games are based on licenses. Mobile has been ripe for innovation and original work by some tremendous developers. But I believe that one of the things that Monopoly demonstrates, Monopoly Go demonstrates, is that and I think this is a very positive message for the business right now with many of its challenges, is that a great game combined with a great brand, for all the reasons we've discussed, can actually rise above that.
Noise and find a new audience. The top 10, top 20 games in mobile has not changed significantly over the last five or six years. We've seen some titles succeed and perhaps go out of the top 20. We've seen a few new entrants, but it's amazing the long standing. That some of those successful games have had in mobile they find friends that enjoy playing these games for many years.
Interestingly, Monopoly Go comes in, hits number one, and it's not clear whether we truly impacted the top 10 or top 20. And I mean that in a very positive way, meaning we found the new art audience and demonstrated that we're still exploring what the ceiling represents or what the opportunity represents in mobile gaming.
And I think that at a time when user acquisition is challenged, the size of the development and budgets of these games is only going up. Knowing that. There is still more to be done with reaching an ever growing audience of mobile gaming fans should be a positive for the whole business, for the whole industry.
David: Yeah, that's really interesting. I think we typically think of the industry as zero sum, but I think what you're describing is that you grew the pie rather than taking a bigger slice of a static pie.
Eugene: I believe that to be the case. If I'm sure there are people that can look at the numbers that are smarter than me and understand that a little more deeply, but I do seriously believe that Monopoly Go did grow the pie of gamers.
It represented. A great deal of the growth that happened within mobile gaming. And yet, as I say, when you look at the top 100, top 200, there are very few cases of games that are successful off of IP that I believed. And of course, again, I would say this, but I believe that represents an opportunity.
For all the reasons I gave that immediate familiarity that goes along with. The right sort of license that can have the sort of four quadrant global appeal that a brand such as monopoly can have that can lead to great success as scopely as demonstrated.
David: Yeah, I think that's a, I think that's a really great point.
On mobile platforms. Your competition is a very, very short click away. And so having that recognizable brand is crucial for getting people to buy in and stay long enough to get hooked.
Eugene: It's so easy to leave and try something else. It's so easy to leave and just go look at your Facebook feed, your tech talk feed.
It's there are so many other forms of entertainment on that device, but go even beyond games.
David: So one of the things I wanted to ask you just about, going back to Hasbro broadly, I was looking at your earnings report and Wizards of the Coast and digital gaming was about 40%, 45 percent of revenue, but it was all the profit with toys being at a negative margin for the last quarter.
And I know, toys are renowned for being a low margin business. And so I'm curious, how does Hasbro think about the toys business versus the digital games business? And does the huge successes of Monopoly Go and Baldur's Gate change the approach of, Hasbro, which is traditionally thought of as a toy company?
Eugene: I will leave others to comment on the broader financials. But what's key here is that we have a tremendous portfolio of IP that allows us to create many great expressions across all platforms, physical and digital license it out, both physical and digital to great companies to create other expressions.
The toy business is, can be challenged at times and has been going through challenging times. We think that. We have some of the, one of the best portfolios of toys and games, and it is demonstrated by the longevity of some of those IP, some of those games. And our success in digital boys, the entire business, our success with magic, the gathering for a long time has buoyed the entire business.
We are a portfolio of great games. And there will be times when some will support others and we will look to their support at different times.
David: Just a question on that note, when you think about launching new IP. Would you look to digital games or would you look to toys as the place to go for new IP?
Eugene: I don't think there's one answer. It's what's the IP, what's the game, what's the, where is the fun in that product? And it might be best expressed in a board game, a toy, or a video game. We have in the, we have a game in development out of our studio archetype in Austin called Exodus that is a new sci fi IP.
That's the best expression of that new IP. Furby has been reinvigorated and relaunched over the last couple of years. Was tremendously successful back in its day. I had a, many people did the, what made it fun and what made it great. Back when it was originally launched, those things remain true.
That just, those emotional connections and the things that made people smile and have fun with that original product remain true today.
David: I have to ask because I spend a lot of my time thinking about UGC platforms like Fortnite and Roblox, on the Fortnite side, one thing we're seeing by virtue of Lego and Disney's billion dollar investments in partnerships with Epic is the broad stroke licensing of IP to creators for a fixed percentage of revenue.
And, what that leads to is a lot of instances of a specific IP on these platforms. I'm curious. Is this something Hasbro would be interested in, or, is there still value in the scarcity of IP and limiting it to a few different experiences?
Eugene: We're tremendous believers in user generated content platforms and how we continue to explore how to enable fans of those platforms to engage with our IP.
We had a real we released a Minecraft D& D experience game last year that was built by that team and they did a tremendous job and the fans loved it and we embrace that even go as far as to create one shot D& D campaigns. The reflected the Minecraft content that was created. We also recently partnered with a new studio, look North world, who are creating games within UEFN, but also created a Power Rangers experience within the game arc that was.
Handled essentially as a UGC experience. So we believe in the, we believe in UGC as a. Emerging an interesting platform. It's, there are many expressions of this that have been around for years, including Minecraft, but it's obviously coming to the fore with the success of Fortnite and Minecraft and other New and interesting platforms.
We have placed transformers into the world of fortnight and it was loved by the fans. We have built my little pony Roblox experiences, which will which was launched recently with our partner outright from the UK. And they've had tremendous early success with fans on Roblox, fans of my little pony on Roblox, being able to play within that world.
We really, the lines between platforms seem to be blaring more and more. And at the core of what we are always trying to do is be successful, bringing our IP to players wherever they choose to play.
David: Amazing. Yeah. And just for audience, we actually had Loo North world on the podcast along with Studio Wild Card.
And then they were taught talking about the power rangers activation. So go check out that episode if you missed it. But amazing to hear that you guys are active in the UGC game space and empowering creators to, to make amazing content with your IP. I just want to wrap up by asking, in the next 12 months, any major launches or events we should be looking forward to?
Eugene: I won't. Spoil the thunder of our partners. We have many products that are yet to be announced. Some of the games that I am excited about just because they've been so very well received. We during summer fest, we showed for the first time with our partner, digital eclipse, a. Power Rangers retro style arcade game.
And that was on the heels of an announcement of a GI Joe retro style arcade game. And we saw such tremendous response from fans to those games that we created a label, the Hasbro retro games label to encapsulate and be an umbrella over those products. And they have not disappointed. Both partners did a tremendous job.
It, and I think will be very well received and they're just straight up fun.
David: Yeah. I love that. I Power Rangers is probably my favorite IP that, that you guys produce. There's a picture of me when I was. 10 years old wearing a Power Rangers outfit for Halloween that I was very proud of and probably wore way too many times to school.
Hope actually, maybe I was like eight. I think 10 would be a little too old to be wearing costumes to school every day, but I'm not going to judge. Thank you. Thank you. And going forward, what's the best way for people to follow your work and get more get in touch if you're
Eugene: I suppose for me personally, that would maybe be linked in where I try to keep up with regular posting about our own announcements of what we're doing.
Although otherwise just following Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast on all the usual social channels.
David: Amazing. And I hear you're going to be at Gamescom in a few weeks.
Eugene: I will be in Gamescom. We have a I've been going for many years. It's one of the best communities of gamers or gatherings of communities of gamers in the world.
One of the best trade shows representing gaming. And we've always found it tremendously useful as an opportunity to talk to our existing as well as future partners. It is a tremendous show that shows. Just how active and vibrant video gaming is today and continues to be, and hopefully will continue to be for a long time.
David: Awesome. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Eugene. This was great and amazing to learn so much about all the amazing IP that Hasbro has to offer.
Eugene: You're very welcome. Thanks for the time. And thanks for inviting me.
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