In this episode, host Alexandra Takei, Director at Ruckus Games, sits down with Derek Qiu, Head of Overseas Operations at NetEase, to explore the cross-border distribution journey of Once Human, a supernatural survival game from Starry Studio.

They discuss the rapid evolution of China's gaming market, how Chinese developers like NetEase are increasing their presence in the West, and how Once Human represents a new wave of globally ambitious titles. Derek shares why the team prioritized a PC-first launch, how they maintained a cosmetic-only monetization strategy despite mobile market pressures, and how the game achieved a top spot in mobile downloads across 166 regions.

The conversation also covers the key differences in publishing and LiveOps strategies between East and West, how self-publishing enabled NetEase to stay agile, and why strong internal infrastructure and cross-cultural research were critical to success. They close with insights on how China's strengths in rapid iteration and operational efficiency are reshaping global competition—and why future gaming growth will favor studios that focus on vertical audiences rather than mass-market appeal.

For anyone curious about China’s growing global influence in gaming, this is a must-listen.

We’d also like to thank Neon – a merchant of record with customizable webshops optimized for conversion – for making this episode possible! Neon is trusted by some of the biggest names in gaming and can help you sell direct without the typical overhead. To learn more, visit https://www.neonpay.com/?utm_source=naavik 

This transcript is machine-generated, and we apologize for any errors.

Alexandra: Alright, what's up everyone? And welcome to the Naavik Gaming Podcast. I'm your host, Alex, and this is the Interview and Insights segment.

Today, we're gonna do an expose on distribution and go-to market in the context of cross-border development and deployment. We've seen over the past years a growing prevalence of Chinese gaming companies growing in consumer market share in the west and around the globe. China itself is the largest domestic market for gaming first and mobile, but now actually on PC and Chinese exports have grown in market share first again on mobile, but now also on PC and console.

Our most recent favorite example is of course, Blacksmith Wang, and although the majority of sales for this game were within China's borders itself, it's a testament to how. The far-reaching length of Chinese IP and even into the West. A similar but different example is a success of Marvel Rivals, which is predominantly made by NetEase, though it may utilize a Western IP.

So today we're gonna have a discussion about China's evolving game market, but more specifically as Chinese mobile developers now capture around 50% of the global gaming market, discussing publishing, owned and operated Chinese IP in the West. And to do that, we're gonna talk about NetEase and specifically Once Human.

Once Human is a PC survival game developed by Starry Studio, a subsidiary of NetEase that launched in July 2024 into early access on Steam to fairly acclaim success as a free to play live service game. It hit an all time peak CCU of 2 31 K and on average as time of writing. And it hit around 20 to 30 KCCU for rolling 30 day averages.

About one week ago, Once Human launched a mobile version on iOS and Android, and this version is also cross platform and cross region. And so I'm delighted to welcome my guest today to talk about all of this. My guest is Derek Qui, head of operations at the overseas market at NetEase. He spent four years at Garena before joining NetEase, where he focused on North America and US deployment of NetEase Properties.

I'll have him tell a little bit, more about himself later, but Derek, welcome to the show.

Derek: Hi, thank you. Hi, Alex. Hi everyone.

Alexandra: Hello. It's amazing to have you in the studio today. I love that I got connected to you and then I happened to be traveling in, out in Orange County. And then I actually met you in person when you were, I think it was your first week stationed at the NetEase office in, that's Irv.

So, yeah. How has, how has it been, how has Orange County been treating you these past few months?

Derek: My life is treating me well. Actually, there's nothing to, to complain about. I mean, the sunshine in California is amazing and I'm, I'm a really, a beach person. Amazing. So I, I enjoy my life here and, the work here is amazing as well.

I have amazing colleagues and also the team in China is very supportive to my job. So, yeah, it's just a lot, a lot of things is rolling and, especially when we, when we, we were trying to prepare our mobile, mobile launch. So, I mean, has happened, but since we, we, we just launched our mobile version, so I, it's gonna be, hopefully it's gonna treat me better.

Alexandra: Okay. Yeah, I figure it's probably been a really hectic time for you. And that's exactly what we're gonna, you know, talk about today. But I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself. You know, where are you originally from and what makes you passionate about video games?

Derek: Sure. So I, I actually grew up with, I grew up as a gamer myself, so I'm a very, I consider myself to be a very hardcore gamer. And especially when I was very young, when I was around seven years old at that time, back in China, to, to purchase computer is a very difficult thing. But I have a very amazing family to support me.

So I started my journey back, back when I was seven years old. And then, uh, along way computer, computer games and all, all kind of play games are my soulmates, I would say. And, what I'm currently doing is, so I'm leading a global publishing and, and, and overseas strategy for Once Human at Starry Studio.

And it's, it's by, by net. And then, over the past over few years, I've been also deeply involved in the global globalization of the Chinese developer games. So for, for this title's, Once Human. And then my previous title was in Garena, which is called Free Fire. It's also a title, a Chinese developer game, but publishing overseas.

So, I think my goal of life or like my, my, my duty of my life is to bring or original IPs with strong development capabilities to place to players worldwide. And that game is developed by, you know, a by a Chinese team. And that's where, where I come from. So I'm really excited to be here today to talk about our journey with Once Human and the challenges, and the breakthroughs in global publishing and how we are building a truly interna, international player community.

Alexandra: That's amazing. Well, first of all, I have never heard the phrase duty of my life, but I love that phrase, the duty of my life. And I am going to start saying that all the time. Um, so I love that. The duty. I, I love that. But okay, Once Human right. Yes. You know, I gave a little bit of, of an overview.

You know, again, it was a PC title first, et cetera, but I would love for you to tell the audience about what Once Human is in a nutshell. Tell us a little bit about the game. What do players do? What genre is it? I'll leave it to you.

Derek: Sure. So Once Human is a supernatural open world survival game, uh, and it's setting in a post apocalyptic world contain, contaminated by stardust.

So as a player, you can explore diverse biomes, team up for combat and build their own bases and choose your preferred play style. So we have both PPE or PVP through our flexible scenario systems. And our, our game, we aim to combine new weird aesthetics with immersive survival game play to create a living evolving universe that resonates with players around the globe.

Alexandra: Okay. And so basically, so it's supernatural, you're playing in there. It's a shooter, right? That's right. Yeah. And the PC version came out in July of 2024. And you know, I guess I kind of wanna, and maybe this is maybe a bit, for my own observation, but. In border Eastern titles are usually built mobile first, and then they're adapted to steam.

So can you talk a little bit about the decision making here? You know, this was a PC game and then you recently launched the mobile version. Why was it developed for Steam first instead of mobile?

Derek: Hmm. So we choose a PC first. It's, so the intention was to refine our core survival mechanics. Combat systems and, and high quality visuals.

So please see players are very engaging survival games and can provide immediate and in-depth feedback. So that's, that's the reason, the initial reason why we developed our PC game first, and also our initial graphic, graphical fidelity and hardware requirements were better suited for PC players in the, in the early stage.

So, so, yeah. And, fortunately, on Steam we reached over 200,000 concurrent players and tens of millions of downloads, which also validated the goal appeal of one.

Alexandra: I see. Okay. So a lot of this was driven by, Hey, we have this ambition to make this game. We think this will actually run better on this hardware.

And this kind of genre of game we see being done on this, on, on, on the PC first before moving it to mobile. , and I guess that's kind of leading me to my next question is, you know, when you initially glance at this game and again, this is again from observation, I'm a huge JRPG player. I, I love games like Persona or Metaphor, right?

But when you look at Once Human immediately, it doesn't strike you as it's made for an Eastern audience immediately. So I'm curious, was the intention to always make this game for the West first or was this game initially on PC successful in China?

Derek: So actually, to answer this question, it's kind of like very hard in general, general question to answer.

So survival game is actually originated from the Western market, from the western market. And then, so, so. So that's, that's the reason why I feel observation, like why we are launching this game. Is it, is it because we are targeting Western users? No. I wish I would say the Western users, they have better knowledge than the Eastern users when it comes to survival game.

Alexandra: Hmm.

Derek: But the reason why we are developing this game is because most of our core designers, they are very hardcore survival game be played. Players and users. And that's the, that's the, the core motivation behind the scene that why we develop this title.

Alexandra: Hmm.

Derek: So, yes.

Alexandra: Okay. So you have a bunch of people who have grown up playing survival games and so they themselves want to build a survival game because that's what they love.

Yes. But I guess why select, the art style that was selected? You know, it definitely resonates as obviously, like you said, but it's, you know, but mil, maybe militaristic sci-fi. Why not, you know, stylize it in a way that might be initially more appealing to the Eastern audience?

Derek: Well, to be very honest with you, it's also because of the preference from the, our core designers.

Because both me personally, I'm a part of the, you know, um, the, the court center team, so, mm. Also we have a similar art preferences. So we wanna build a survival, survival game. So that's the very clear direction, right? So when it comes to our preferences, what we, what we wanna bring to the, to the players is a very unique playing experience that you can't get elsewhere other than Once Human.

So when we, we were discussing and brainstorming what kind of directions we should go. It just pop up to, to our mining and then that, that that was the only option that we wanna, we wanna, we wanna pursue with. So, so here it goes. Okay.

Alexandra: Alright. And then, so the game is out right now. As you mentioned, it reached over 200 K, um, you know, peak concurrent users was the predominant username for user base for that game in the west or in the east, I think.

How would you kind of break it up at a high level, DAU split?

Derek: So in the very early stage of our PC release, our player base was, uh, mainly concentrated in three major, major regions, so East Asia, North America, and Europe. After launching the mobile version, we saw a big wave of new users join the game.

So, while our core markets are still East Asia and North America and Europe, uh, we've started to see a really in strong interest coming from Southeast Asia and South America as well. So right now, PC users, they, they, they still show higher engagement and retention of overall, but the mobile player base is growing quickly.

So we're starting to see a more balanced platform distribution as mobile picks up to speed globally.

Alexandra: I see. And yeah, and obviously it's only been out for like a week or something, so only expected to, to kind of grow from here. But you know, before we move on to discussing, you know, the mobile launch of, of Once Human, yeah.

I'm curious about what was good enough about the PC, about the PC version to warrant making a mobile version, right. We talked about some of the numbers, right, but I guess from the Neti perspective. By what rules and performance do you guys decide that, you know, this thing warranted a mobile port?

Derek: Okay, so we have a very systematic and, and rational evaluation on this decision making.

So when we evaluated whether to develop, uh, more version or not, we mainly look at early user retention, engagement, community feedback, and overall social bus. During the PC phase, Once Human had really strong community activity and very positive feedback globally, which gives a confidence to move forward with a mobile version.

And since our, very first review, we've seen a strong demand from players worldwide asking for a mobile release. So after we stabilized the PC content and performance, we immediately started our mobile development and worked very hard to tackle all of the adoptions challenges to bring was to mobile players as soon as possible.

Alexandra: I see. Okay. So, from a high level, it's, it's three things for you guys. The first was retention rather than necessarily DAU installs, et cetera. It's just looking at retention versus maybe. Top of funnel audience. The second for you is actually kind of community behavior. So people legitimately asking in a forum or asking on Reddit or asking on TikTok, you know, for an actual mobile version of this game.

And, the third one was, you know, generally like strong, I guess, review reception.

Derek: That's right.

Alexandra: All right. That's the systematic approach. And do you think that that applies for how the kind of, the gradient that once human was evaluated against, or is that more like the, this is the rudimentary approach for all games, if you would want to bring them either mobile to PC or PC to mobile.

Derek: Wow. I can only, I, I can only answer this question on behalf of, of, of Once Human or DI studio, right? So I think the, the model of the, of how to come up with decisions should be always very systematic and, and rational as long as the decision making is legit.

I think it doesn't matter what kind of model you're evaluating, but that's the, that's the one we are implementing and using from our side.

Alexandra: Okay, I see. Yeah, that probably very dependent upon product Pro Studio.

Derek: That's right.

Alexandra: Alright, so we've got some grounding for what Once Human is. On the PC side, its performance, you know, the rationale for why it was brought to, you know, the, I guess the decision making process by which it was green-lit to be mobile.

 But I guess, you know, you had some, and you kind of answered one of my upcoming questions, right, which was people were asking for a mobile version. But yeah, now we're gonna shift to the mobile launch of Once Human. But why did you bring this game to mobile versus something like console is the only reason that people were asking for it.

So why did you think product market fit on mobile over console?

Derek: So we have a lot of experience with mobile game development, so, which really help us to move quickly and efficiently when building mobile version of Once Human, but when it comes to console, it's, it's a bit different. We want to make sure console players get the best possible gameplay experience, effort, right.

So, but, so right now our team is still building up the, the technical foundation needed for that.

Alexandra: Hmm.

Derek: And we. We already are working closely with several console platforms on the on tech side, and once we truly ready, we'll definitely speed, speed up the, the console production process.

Alexandra: I see. Okay.

So you guys have potentially intentions to go to console as well to truly be the kind of triumvirate mobile, PC console, cross platform?

Aaron: Yes.

Alexandra: Okay. Awesome, alright. So, I'd love to start talking about the mobile launch of Once Human. You know, it's been one week, and so we'll talk a little bit about how it's going.

It seems like it's going very well so far. But the first thing that I wanted to say is, you know, what changed about the game to bring it to mobile? I'm sure there were a bunch of things that needed to be done differently from in-game monetization to controls. So I'd love for you to walk me through how you guys thought about adapting the title from PC to mobile.

Derek: Mm-hmm. So, so firstly, it's, we, we designed a completely, custom UI, custom UI and simplified the control logic specifically for touch screens. So if use an, an intru and very easy to play on mobile. Secondly, we kept a strong focus on localized monetization. We, we stick very firmly to no pay win philosophy, meaning all purchases are cosmetic only convenient and totally.

There's no paid wing, factors and, players, they, they, they can compete based on their skill, but not how much they spend. Interesting. And, and certainly we paid a lot of attention to cultural sensitivity. We made, we made sure to adjust certain visual elements and event name to better fit local cultures and social norm in different regions.

And, I would say lastly, but not the least, we set up dedicated servers in the US and, and Europe to help reduce lag issue and, support community management in each language region.

Alexandra: Okay, got it. So obviously some of the basics, right? First establish servers second, you know, change the control scheme, tour for touchscreen, make sure that it's, you know, appropriately localized by territory. But I think the most interesting change that I'd love to spend some time on here, or potentially the lack of change, is I. No really big differences in the business model on the MOT station side. So normally when things go to mobile, there's often sometimes where you're switching to be a bit more pay to win. Walk me a bit further through like why the, the PC SKU is, you know, and the mobile SKU still are the free to play cosmetic only economy. I think, how are you guys thinking from thinking about that from the business perspective, given the state of mobile today? The high cost per install, and, you know, having to balance that out with a player with that, you know, hopefully has high LTVI.

Derek: I think it's really related to, the net, the, the nature of the product.

So by nature, this is a survival open world game. So by implementing any page win factors, we'll sabotage the player experience. So that's from our side. So the, the, the very intention from the very beginning is not to, to bring any negative feedbacks to the players while they're playing game, because we want to do the game for fun, not just for monetization.

I mean, monetization is important because it will support our long term op, operation foundation.

Alexandra: Mm-hmm.

Derek: But it's just where we come from. So we, a bunch of the, you know, I would say, a bunch of true believer and true gamer who want to craft a game to, to bring to a wider, uh, a wider user groups all over the world.

And then, we want to have fun. From you, you know, from building the, this game, it's not purely because of we want to make money for survival, right? So that's, that's where we, where, where it comes from. So when we, while we were evaluating the monetization, monetization model, actually I was one of the core monetization designer behind it.

Behind this. We had a very solid calculation model. So, so we could get an idea like how many users we need to get and how, how much they need to pay to make sure that our game can be, profitable. So based on our cosmetic only like much model, our game can have a positive cash flow. So with this evaluation, so we we're very competent to proceed with this direction.

Yeah. And, and when it comes from mobile version, comes from PC version to mobile version, we definitely cannot break our, our valve. Right? So we want to bring the very genuine, experience from what's PC to mobile. Mm-hmm. Question you asking. Yes. A lot of mobile games quite. High AR PPU centric. So they're pushing players to buy a lot of like exp expensive stuff and they want to compete with their others with like factors.

That's not what we wanna do.

Alexandra: Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a, it's a really interesting tactic because I think some of the challenges that Western Studios have had going to the east is almost the opposite, right? Like of a lot of people derive a lot of fun from deep vertical spend economies. Um, and Western, a western audience or a Western developer doesn't think like that because they don't want to do pay to win and they don't know.

And then when they bring their business model over or they bring their game over, it just doesn't pick up. And you guys have almost done a. The reverse of that, but, but well, right. You understand the Western audience and you understand what they're looking for. Yeah. And so you didn't really adapt the game to being any, any different.

And you obviously did that, that that calculus, about, you know, being cashflow positive and the relationship between Dow and ARP Dow. Obviously direct purchase economies typically have lower DAU than a loop box economy. But, if you guys have felt confident in basically that scale of the business, then.

It would, you know, it would justify the type, the type of business model. And so I wanted to ask a little bit about, you know, what changed about the game to specifically bring it to the US territories. And this was probably one of them, but, I know that you guys don't have a, a Western partner. You guys are distributing this yourself in, in the west.

When you were talking about those changes that you made to the game to localize it, how did, who did you work with to kind of figure out, you know. What, what is it? You know, what street should, should this be called given that maybe the team who developed it wasn't from the local area.

Derek: So just to, just to clarify the, the question, is it, like, while when we try, when we are trying to publish our game without working with other, Western partners, what did we do? Or why?

Alexandra: Yeah. Sort of like how did you do the, on the ground research to figure out the best way to localize this game for someone in Brazil versus someone in America versus someone in

Derek: Alright.

Alexandra: The EU.

Derek: Okay.

Alexandra: So if you didn't have a local partner to tell you those things, for example.

Derek: I see. So that's exactly what I'm, what, what my team was to contribute to the, to the, to the product. So yeah, my, my, my team can be considered as a partner that you're referring here. And then, so when, back to the test phase, like the, the close beta phase, I was, not just me, my, my team is deeply involved into this.

Designing phase. And me personally, because I've worked well, I gained a lot of experience working in America, the, the whole continent backing through fire. So I was the major like pusher behind of this, like how should we design the modernization model? And then, on top of that we also have our international user research team based with space in North America. So that team also provides a very profound, uh, local perspectives on how should we make the, the changes not just related to monetization, but also gameplay as well. Okay. And then, apart from that, when we did close beta test, we also get a lot of feedbacks and we, user research survey from our players are from our test participants. They also provided a tons of invaluable suggestions to our player, to our product. So that's, so to combine all of the information altogether, that's how, that's how we decide like what kind of like the direction that we should customize to, yeah, to fit the, the local market.

Alexandra: Awesome. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. I think, yeah, as a lot of that research might be held in the distribution partner, but instead you guys were doing that internally and it sounds like you did some very early testing with the, with the correct markets to get.

Feedback and to be able to adapt the game from those early wave of consumers. Okay. And so I wanna talk a little bit about, you know, performance. How is the game, how is the game doing? You know, you launched it about a week ago. My first question is, is this the outcome that you guys expected?

Derek: I wish it, I would say we dreamed about it and then, but it's not an actual, actual goal.

But overall that we're very proud of that what we have achieved.

Alexandra: Okay. I guess in, in, in that, in, in that, in that regard, I'm sure that there's some sort of total downloads target, there's some sort of target, and I'm obviously not necessarily going to ask you to necessarily share. We can all check app and we can all check at Check App Annie, or data.ai and, and find, figure it out.

But I wanna spend more time and maybe talking about. What surprised you about the past week and what are you learning right now, you know, given that it's one week into the launch, and, and what are you basically going to do next, given what has happened so far?

Derek: I see. So I would say we definitely need a lot of more time to, to analyze user behaviors because the mobile user behavior, they're very different from the PC user, user behavior and also the monetization patterns, engagement matrix to have a very truly objective picture of how the mobile version is performing. So that is at, we still at a very early stage to get the result.

What surprises me is actually, that's within my expectation. But, when I see that we've reached the number one download charts across 166 count countries and regions, which is a huge milestone, especially for survival game genre,

Alexandra: That is very surprising. That's awesome.

Derek: That's traditionally, you know, it's more niche, right?

So from our perspective, we believe, and we. We, we, we think it's a, it's a very strong start. So what, what will come next is we gonna have a lot of like future update plans and for, for what's given. So firstly, we, we will, we will keep re releasing regular content updates like new, new games songs, new masters, new Dungeons, and of course more, a lot more new scenarios.

So, for example, that in, in May we were introducing a new major seasonal effect called visional wheel. And in July we will launch a brand new PV PV experience that will, that will be around our anniversary time.

Alexandra: Mm-hmm.

Derek: And then, on top of the content, we're also planning some very exciting IP collaborations.

But I, I can't give you a lot of, don't tell me. Yeah. Thank you. But we will, we will re, we'll relieved, review the information later. And we'll also continuously working on gameplay and quality of life improvements based on the, the player feedback. So since things like server optimization, inventory enhancement.

So a lot of things will be closely, related to the product performance, but all of them, they come from the player feedbacks and the observation that we see. Like what's the pinpoint, but from, from the users when they're playing the game. Right.

Alexandra: Okay. Well, I mean, that is amazing. I think, again, survival is not the, it, it, I guess it wouldn't, you wouldn't call it probably like a juggernaut genre. It's definitely a smaller and more niche, and so that's a, yeah, that's a huge congrats to you guys and the team for Thank you hitting those top charts in, in, in that many countries. I'd be curious if you guys have any insights between, you know, one first, where, where are the majority of your players coming from, and also the overlap between the PC version and mobile.

You had said in the beginning of the podcast that, you know. A lot of people had made comments from the PC community that they wanted a mobile version. So do you feel like you are having the same audience from PC that's on mobile now or is it completely, uniquely different?

Derek: So I would say, it's still a very early stage.

But what, when the, when, when we see from the pc, most our players came from the, the East Asia, north America, and Europe. Right. So after launching the mobile version, we, we saw rapid growth from Southeast Asia and South America as well. But it's, it's still very hard to identify like what's a, what's a portion of, of landscape and versus the platform. It, I, I think it's too hard to say. And also the retention rate. Engagement rate, they're, they're quite different from the PC users and, and the mobile users. And then it will vary differently across regions, to be honest. So it's a very complex, like analysis model behind this. So to, in order to give you a, a very accurate statement, I would say it will take a longer time for us to, to, to analyze it. But from a very initial understanding that I'm seeing. From the backend operation data, I would say still the PC players, their retention rate and engagement rate is higher than mobile version.

And then, we, so we will keep polish it. We will keep polishing our PC user, a game experience for sure. So that's a, mm-hmm. That's a foundation of our game. And then in the meanwhile, we will polish and, and improve the, the, the mobile adoption for our mobile users. But yeah, this, this is a very dynamic and, and, and long-term development plan.

Alexandra: I see. And, uh, both are obviously being done by, by Starry. How would you say, is it split? Is the majority of the is it like 50 50 supporting mobile versus pc or are there, are there you think more of the studios working on one or the other?

Derek: I think we'll wanna do both, at the same time. That's what we, that's what we are trying to, you know, to, to pursue.

And that's why we are expanding our team here. So I would, I wouldn't say 50 50. I think that, that the important level is, would be the same because they are all our Western from players.

Alexandra: All right, so that was talking a little bit about staffing and studio structure. And I actually wanna, you know, switch gears a little bit to talking about, you know, navigating publishing in the west and structure and how you guys got it done.

And we talked a little bit about, you know, how you got the research about how to localize this thing the right way. And you told me a little bit about the big beats for the game in the upcoming months. You know, you might do some IP partnerships, you're gonna have regular updates. I wanna steer this more towards, you know, doing this overseas versus doing this in China.

How is the live ops plan different? How have you designed it differently than what it potentially would look like if this game was primary target audience was in China?

Derek: Hmm. So, we've noticed that Western players really care about community communications. So, we stay very active on platforms like Reddit and close to them. And when it come to live events, the cultural alignment's super important. For example, in the West, we prioritize things like Black Friday and Christmas. While in, in Asia we will focus more on holidays like Chinese New Year and, and mid, mid autumn festival. So it's, it's, it's not just about the ING events, it's about making them real fuel.

Really relevant. We also take a more restrained approach to, to monetization in, in Western market. So the idea is to avoid anything that feels too aggressive. Instead, we focus on enhancing the experience with co cosmetic items and the fear engagement driven systems and I would say, one, what big difference is how quickly Western players give feedback it's. It's often fastened very direct. So to handle that, we're the worst. No, you're at the, you're at the, I would say you're at the, the most honest one. So it's, it's, it's very valuable when it comes to. You know, the product improvement. So we need that sharp feedback. So, so to handle that, we set up a, a very rapid internal response mechanism so we can sync our feedback and react quickly both within the team and the, and within the community.

That's the, I think that that's the major differences just between the live ops in Eastern and Western markets.

Alexandra: Okay. Got it. Yeah. All right. That's, that's definitely some good context. And yes, in the West, I think gamers are a very brutal community. And they will absolutely tell you exactly what they think, and they will be disparaging about it, which I think, I guess from the perspective of improving the product is very, is very, very useful.

I would love to learn a little bit about the, you know, the, you're running this onshore team here in, in Orange County, I guess. Yeah, and the organizational structure at NetEase that, you know, how you guys were staffed for this once Human launch, you know, what the teams were doing, working towards distribution and, and, and what were they doing.

It sounds like there's obviously a, a lot of parties. And so I would love for you to tell me a little bit about, you know, those teams and how they're structured and even. Pre-launch and now post-launch, given that people are like ready to ingest feedback and they're ready to make changes.

Derek: Yeah, so the project is led and, and developed by our core team at Studio. At the same time, we have over my overseas team handling local operations including marketing, community management, and customer support across regions like the US and, and, and Europe. So we've actually built a global operation hub with the team members pacing different parts of the world.

And this structure really help us to combine the deep local insights from regional teams with execution, speed and efficiency of our China based development team both. So both sides work very, very closely together and remotely. So we have a pretty clear and efficient communication framework to keep everything running smoothly, day to day.

Alexandra: Okay. Can you tell me, I guess, a little bit about that communication framework? I mean, I guess it's like, you know, I'm imagining there are so many parties. You have the studio back home and Yeah. You're like, here we are. This is how it's happening. This is what this community person said, here's a bug ticket.

Yeah. How do we get that feedback? And so how did you guys structure that to be kind of like this fast moving, well-oiled machine? Because I think this is often where so many teams begin to break down. Yeah. When they start becoming overwhelmed with like the. The feedback tsunami about the game.

Derek: So it's a different job. Job function is, for example, either it's community or it's Martin, or it's KOL, should have their own very specific working SOPs, whether it's using the product manage tools or using internal communication platform. It's always good to have the, to have the tools behind this, but the most important thing I think, is to really design a system that can make everyone work clearly within the organization.

So that's, what might, what I. What I was trying to build internally. So, so different functions will have different, SOPs and then different SOPs will involve different coordinate coordinators will have different rules. So, really to will organize and to streamline everything altogether and to come up with, like inter integrated hub model.

Is, is the, is the key behind this. I mean, there's a lot of like de details, explanations and what they. I would say it's maybe like too, too much for our audience and, and for, for today's discussion. But the main idea is to, to, to really understand the internal working SOP and, and working environment in, in both sides.

From both sides. So you can come up with a, a very reasonable working. So piece for everyone to, to, to work together.

Alexandra: Yeah. Got it. I mean, in summation it's how would you like to be communicated with, how would you like to communicate? And then we come to some conclusion and we tailor it by each prospective discipline.

You know, I just think that that's an important architectural foundation to lay. Prior to the launch so that when the launch happens, you know, you have those li and those, those conduits are, are, are, are working. But, you know, so you talked a little bit about how the live ops plan would be different if this was going to be distributed in the West versus China.

I'd love for you to tell me from the publishing perspective. Maybe, you know, some of the, some of the differences, you know, maybe your top three differences in go-to market approaches for distribution in the West versus the east. 

Derek: So, oh, what so. When it comes to go to market, market strategy, there are pretty, clear differences between, you know, the Eastern market and, and the Western market.

So, for example, for, for, for media channels in China, we mainly focus on platforms like TikTok, BilliBilli, and TapTap. Not sure if you heard of it, but in, but in the US. It's a, it's a very different landscape, so we will prioritize YouTube, Twitch, Reddit to reach players more organically.

And it's not just for, for us, but for the Western market when we, when we were studying our place, players like day-to-day user behaviors. They also, they also use, use those streamlined platforms and the messaging style is also quite different. So in China, the marketing trend the, the, the, the marketing tends to emphasize the visual impact and technical highlights.

Kind of like showcasing what's cool and what is cutting edge before Western players. It's more about player, ex, experience and, and, and immersive storytelling. They want to view, to be part of the world, not just see, you know, flashy features. And then, when we talk about the pre-launch strategy, the difference is even bigger.

In China we focus heavily on pre, pre generation number and type pacing control. But in, in the Western market, it's about how to build a seed of communities early and, and generate organic bus through KOLs or our, core players. So yeah.

Alexandra: Interesting. Okay. Yeah, it is just so interesting to see like kind of what resonates and, the, could you do, do you mind defining what is, what is a KOL?

Derek: Oh, key opinion leader?

Alexandra: Key opinion leader. Okay, got it. There we go. We just call those influencers. Yeah. Okay. The key, I love that. Duty. Duty of my life and Key and KOL, key opinion leader. Okay. I see. Yeah. And that, that was really helpful and I think, you know, a very good and concrete way of kind of delineating the differences.

And sort of before we move on to, you know, our, our final topic, I wanna ask sort of one more final question, which is sure, you know, for, obviously you guys decided that you wanted to be the onshore distributor, yes. But did you consider partnering with someone and why did you decide to come and do it yourself versus, you know, maybe working with a local operator?

Derek: We've thought about it. Our, our, one of our, our goal, key goal is to keep a very direct connection with our players. Whether it it's about our brand, content, or just, you know, building trust. That's actually why we choose to go with global self-publishing. For, for our product, it's a pretty bold move to be honest.

But also, yeah, also very exciting one because it gives us the full control over the entire process from launch to operations, right? And most important thing is it that allows us to, to, to, to react to feedback much faster and make product adjustment more, more flexibility. So, so we can really stay close to what our players want instead of just waiting for decisions to go through up until layers.

Alexandra: Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I mean it seems extremely logical, right? Like it's obviously would be preferential to, it's easier if everything is kept internal. Yeah. You maintain the relationship with the player, you own the relationship with the player.

And obviously, you know, you obviously already did the PC launch, um, and on the mobile side, you don't really have, there's not a robust quote like scene for mobile publishing, just given the way that the. You're, it's just the ease of development and the ease of publishing through, you know, the iOS or the Android store.

And so you kind of don't have the same kind of publishing gatekeepers that you might have, especially for console, where you almost need that distribution partner to even get onto the platform. But I was just curious how you guys were thinking about it, because it's definitely, you know, a foray of, into the, into the, um, into the west for NetEase.

And I guess pending, I guess maybe you don't speak from speak for obviously all of NetEase, but do you guys think that you would continue to do this with, with other, with other titles as well?

Derek: Yes, we will, with a valid like product, product outcome proof to support our, thinking behind this.

I think right now we are quite confident on our overseas publishing capability, even though it's still at a very early stage. But we do see that from long-term run it'll be very sustainable and very beneficial to the whole studio. Yes. So yes.

Alexandra: All right. So I'd love to move on to our, our final topic, which is kind of about China's evolving game market, obviously from the, the Once Human perspective.

Sure. But, you know, we talked a little bit about how Chinese games are, you know, that, sorry, we talked a little bit about that Chinese games are going global, but why do you think, why do you think that is?

Derek: So from our perspective, right? Stores, DI Studio, we see tremendous opportunities in the global gaming market because we've observed that no matter where plays are from, they share the same fundamental desire for fun, creativity, and meaningful gameplay experiences.

So for us, global Publishing is just, it's not just an innovative experiment. It's actually a strategically improvement. Our vision for, any titles, just limited to what's human is to grow it into a globally recognized original IP. So not just a single game, but a brand with long-term creative and, and, and cultural value.

So that's the reason behind this. I see.

Alexandra: Yeah, and, and I guess, you know, I think that, you know, from the Starry Studio perspective, what do you think is maybe China's development strength that you guys are trying to bring and like, how does Once Human, you know, embody maybe that, that development strength.

Obviously there are some regions that are better at making mobile games and some regions that are better at making PC console. What's, what's your perspective on China's development strength and how that applied to Once Human?

Derek: So we, ourselves, we leverage our team's experience in, in, in fast iteration system, systemized production and efficient execution to deliver high quality development at a, at a strong pace. So those three are the key pillars behind this. At the same time, we remain highly open to global best practices like immersive storytelling, community engagement and innovative gameplay design and actively integrated, them into our development process. So it's really about combining execution if, execution efficiency with creative flexibility, and that's being a big part of our success so far.

Alexandra: Interesting. Yeah, I think the perspective on iteration is also very critical, right? It's, it's like how to iterate fast, and how to make those changes very, very quickly. I think that that's definitely something that, in the West there are some AAA studios that are, you know, struggled to do that, won't name any names, but there are some people that move a little slower than others and obviously have, don't have the same kind of community integration with feedback loops. So, you know, I think, it's very interesting to hear, you know, and see different styles of production being done all across the world. It's obviously all games, but different routes to success. Yes, sir, you know, given your experience from, I.

This from Once Human on the PC side and the mobile side. Do you have a recommendation? I would say for our audience, for effective collaboration between the east and the West? You know, what is like the definitely don't do and definitely do, do, best practices.

Derek: So, so the goal is to make sure that, that the game can be published like successfully in both Eastern market and Western market.

Alexandra: Yeah. And like how you can collaborate and coordinate between the two?

Derek: So those suggestions, they are for the Western audience, right?

Alexandra: Yeah.

Derek: Okay. So I think the first one is to, I, the do-do is to actually to build up a international hub that it, that they can fully understand what's the type, like what, what's the cultural differences between Eastern market and network and Western market.

That hub is not just for, you know, user research, like providing user insight, but also it's very important to have a communication bridge between those, those two teams because the working style might be a little bit different. And when it comes to data communication, it, it, it might be different.

So to, to have a, in very international, open-minded team implemented into the whole, the whole big organization. It's very important. So that's definitely a do do no do is, I'm not sure if I can say this, but don't be too stubborn. I, so I mean, look at the gaming industry right now. There's a, something that we can learn from the eastern market and then something that we can learn from the Western market, right?

So the very important thing is that when we are trying to build up the, the production roadmap, always consider the, the, the, the advantage from both sides. Not because me personally, I know a lot of like, game producers, they're very used to, how Western market, they're, they're, they're, they're producing a game and then because they have a very successful track record before, but when it comes to, when it comes to game, when it comes to like cross platform games, it's very important, like to combine the, the most cutting edge, like product, uh, project management skill and also the technical skill altogether to, to, and to customize it to, to fit the, to fit the product.

Very well, I think, I think that's, that's a no do. Yeah, that's the biggest, do and no do that I can think of right now.

Alexandra: Yeah. Well, the, they're rather actually very complimentary. One of them is about, you know, understanding and doing your research and, you know, knowing what other knowing what players want in x, y, z region.

And the other is about, well. Don't be too stubborn to do things the only way that you've done them before. And be open-minded to having a different perspective or building something different, which I love. I guess one of my, my, my final question here will be, is a lot of today we've focused on, you know.

The, the approach for Once Human, you know, on PC and Mobile. Right. I would love just kind of a final perspective on like where do you think growth is gonna come from in the gaming market in general? Right. So just across the board, you know, games are, obviously right now there's some parts of games that are very much struggling.

And how is sort of your perspective on just gaming the market in general, informing the Once Human strategy?

Derek: So. Okay, so, let me answer the, the, the last part of the question. So what, so how does, how does the, that inform the, the one screen strategy? So seeing the global response reinforces our belief in, in content driven development and the community first operations.

And we continue to, you know, to invest in world building regular content updates and, and, and deep communication management across different regions. And looking forward, we also exploring cross platform in, in integration and console version so we can meet players where they're. And deliver the, the, the best possible experience across different platforms.

And ultimately, our strategy is simple to, to keep creating great contents, stay close to players, and build, build one's human into a long lasting global IP. So that also answer your first question, like where is the growth coming from? I think, right now the gaming, the, the gaming industry is segmented into, into different categories.

So for, for games like us, we use survival. I, we have different texts. We have, we, your survival game, shooting game. We are open world, we are sandbox game, so you can find a very niche market and to, to have a vertical, like, like a growth to attract your call, users. I think that's, that's very important.

So you, you gotta, you gotta figure out what is really. Your product about and where are your key users? Because right now on the market, I don't, I don't, I don't believe that when you're publishing a very po very well po polished game, and it's very fun to fun, you, you will be like, worry about your, your, your users.

It will not happen as long as your gameplay is valid, as long as your game like quality is valid. You just need to understand like, and you just need to figure out who will be your target audience and how to. How to retain them and how to, how to improve the product in a, in a long term run, based on how to, like listening to their feedbacks.

So this is, this is a whole loop, right?

Alexandra: Yeah.

Derek: So that's where the growth come from. I, I think it'll come from a more segmented and more vertical, categories. Hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, just don't, don't, don't, don't, don't be too ambitious. Like I, I want those players. I want that players, I want everyone. And then in the end, when you're trying to do like product improvement, you have no idea like which direction we should go.

Alexandra: Yeah, no, I think that that makes sense and I think we've seen a, a trend, right?

I think what you're also speaking to is just a trend of hyper localization on higher per segmentation, of creating something very unique for maybe just a segment of the audience, right? Yeah. And then from the, that tiny little segment, then potentially you can grow versus going for this big global game, all, everything everywhere, all at once.

Yeah. And so I think that that perspective is, is really valid and appreciate it. But thank you, Derek. We're kind of coming to the end of our episode here, but just wanted to thank you so much. This has been awesome. I learned so much about kind of the approach and the experience that you guys have learned from, you know, navigating publishing on PC and navigating publishing and on on mobile in the West.

Any final words before we sign off today?

Derek: I would say I'm, I'm still very confident on the down the field checking industry, and thank you so much for, you know, spending time with us. And, highly appreciation to, to you, Alex, to, you know, to invite me here.

Alexandra: Yeah, of course. Well, thank you so much, um, everybody.

This was a pleasure. It's amazing. And, as always friends, if you have feedback or ideas, hit me up at [email protected]. I'm always open. And with that, that's our episode. See you next time. Bye everybody.

Derek: Bye.

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